don't know whether to take an exit package

[Iwillneverbesatisfied]

I've asked my union to help me negotiate an exit package from my workplace, except the package they think I will get is too low in the eyes of my DH and my DM.

My union proposed asking for £70,000, and accepting no lower than £50,000. This would be about 12-18 months salary and I'm guessing before PILON and annual leave accumulated. Also with a positive reference. Union say I might not get this but its higher than most places offer as an exit package.

I have experienced years of disability discrimination, and I cannot take it anymore. I am still employed there, but struggling.

The fear, on the part of my DH and DParents is that because of the number of disabilities I have, that money might run out before I find anything else. I do not want to downsize either or move as I love my home. It is necessary for DHs work and DDs school. Also family nearby as a disability support network. There is also the current climate to think about with regards to the job market. DHs place has had redundancies although he believes he may be okay.

The other options are to quit, with no money at all, and sue but maybe not win. Or carry on working there and be more and more miserable.

I don't know what to do. DH says not to take less than £90,000 so we can at least pay off our mortgage. I'm in the public sector. I don't think that is realistic. I think I'd be lucky to get £50,000.

Can anyone advise me? I'm job searching all the time with no luck. My qualifications are so niche as well. I've tried to do additional courses though. I do not want to work in a shop just to pay my bills and I couldn't anyway due to the nature of my disabilities.

I think it's worth checking with your union or ACAS to see if this exit package would cover the cost of an employment solicitor to advise you?

I think that it's impossible to say whether you should accept the sum or not without knowing whether your employer will even offer that amount or what the other terms might be (including a contribution to legal costs). You also need to think about your overall wellbeing in a situation like this. You're not necessarily going to be fully financially compensated until you find another job, but any decrease in income may be massively offset by the improvement in your overall mental and physical health.

Harsh though it may sound, an exit package like this will be a balance of what your employer is willing (or able - if it's public sector they may be restricted in what they're able to offer) and what you're willing to accept. It's often useful to highlight the potential issues if a settlement cannot be agreed, e.g. possible disability discrimination/unfair dismissal claim with resulting cost, compensation and bad publicity for them.

As far as the option of leaving and suing them, this can be done but isn't to be undertaken lightly. A significant part of compensation is based on loss of earnings and so you have to be out of pocket to win. For a discrimination claim there's also injury to feelings compensation, but that will be based on how 'hurt' you've been. You may feel that you've had enough on that score already. Also a Tribunal claim takes time and is stressful.

Your union should be able to investigate the possibility of an exit on an off the record (without prejudice) basis without commiting you to accept. That would at least give you the chance to properly understand what the options are.

My union did not say if that would include pension contributions, PILON and annual leave, or if that would be added on top

Has your employer given any indication they will pay an exit package?

I've worked In a number of public sector organisations and we have rarely settled and certainly not for anywhere near the figures you have quoted. My organisations have only settled once employment tribunal proceedings have been underway and with a full legal assessment.

I've just seen a statistic which cited the median disability discrimination award by employment tribunals last year to be £12,000 (average is £28,000). It's not easy to get a decent award, even if you win.

Unless your rep has a good understanding of the law and tribunal awards, or has sought advice from Union legal advisers, you may be sorely disappointed. I think you need to go back to them and ask for more information as to how they got that figure.

Honestly? I think your husband is in cloud cuckooland.

If you can get as much as £50k in an exit package that would be very, very good.

Regardless of what's gone on, it's not your current employer's responsibility to compensate you for the difficulties and restrictions you may encounter in the future as a result of your disability.

Have you applied for PIP? It's not means-tested. You can apply for ESA once out of work.

Also public sector severance payments are limited to £95,000 so any contractual entitlements will need to be included in this figure. I only know of the most senior people in an organisation getting anywhere near this and I mean Board level.

When I've been involved in exit negotiations we've always added PILON and annual leave in with the figure, not on top.

In all honesty, unless you are in active dispute with your employer (eg you are disagreeing whether an adjustment is reasonable), I can't see them wanting to settle. There is no reason for them to.

@user17425642134531

Honestly? I think your husband is in cloud cuckooland.

If you can get as much as £50k in an exit package that would be very, very good.

Regardless of what's gone on, it's not your current employer's responsibility to compensate you for the difficulties and restrictions you may encounter in the future as a result of your disability.

Have you applied for PIP? It's not means-tested. You can apply for ESA once out of work.

Hence my question as to whether the employer has even entered into a discussion about an exit package. It's one thing the Union saying what the figure should be, but if the employer doesn't get out their cheque book, it just isn't gonna happen.

It doesn't stack up - on the one hand the option is an exit package of between £50-70K or The other options are to quit, with no money at all, and sue but maybe not win. Or carry on working there and be more and more miserable. Why would quitting with no money be a viable option when the alternative is a significant payout, unless it's wishful thinking.

Have your employer even offered? It sounds like you’d be approaching them, which immediately significantly reduces the amount they’d pay. If you approach them, the messages you are sending are (a) you want to leave employment and (b) you have no appetite to bring a legal claim.

If they get the impression you want to leave and don’t want to bring a claim, there’s very little incentive for them to pay you anything really.

If your DH thinks the enormous figure you’re talking about isn’t enough, and assuming you don’t get that, what does he want you to do? Carry on working there? Bring a tribunal claim?

What would your claim against them comprise? What is making so unhappy?

To answer the questions above:

There is a live tribunal claim for discrimination arising from disability, harassment and failure to make adjustments. Ongoing for a long long time. Diagnosed with PTSD, been suicidal, long term sick.

We've had settlement discussions where options other than a severance package were discussed and we agreed to try them without success (I am still employed there and the claim is still live although due to Covid its delayed).

Union rep is a senior union official who is legally qualified. I also have a lawyer through the union (Thompsons).

I have a without prejudice letter that admits mistakes have been made. I also have substantial written evidence (eg emails and witness statements) of discrimination. I could win a tribunal claim but the stress is getting to me.

No severance package has been offered but HR have admitted to my union official that they do not think the relationship is repairable.

I am trying to be realistic about my prospects of another job with my disabilities and in this current climate. It will be very hard to find anything else yet staying there will make me much worse health wise.

There is no ideal option really.

Has the tribunal offered judicial mediation and what is Thompson's advice?

I'd be interested to know how it escalated to this point.

My personal experience, is that you'd be looking at notice period pay equivalent plus if lucky another few months.
Mine was 6 months equivalent pay, fully inclusive.
You may be in a stronger position, though from what you say it sounds like the same position I was in tbh, except the employer accepted they'd exacerbated physical symptoms rather than MH.
I think that you need to be realistic, that if 50k is what's being mooted, that's most likely to be the figure and to put contingency plans in place.
Ultimately, whether you opt to work to earn in a lower position is your choice, but what's worth more-your home or pride?

I think you need to put aside what your DH and DParents 'think' you should get. That's not how the law works. Your legal adviser will give you an idea as to the potential value of your claim.

Until your employer has agreed to consider a settlement, there is no point in thinking about whether the figure is too low. It may not even be an option.

Union official sent me the offer through late last night.

£60,000 gross
annual leave accumulated
PILON (3 months which is about £6000)
Positive reference

Official has warned me that due to Covid, if I turn it down, I may never get a similar offer or even one at all, as next year's budgets are likely to be cut. Union official also warned me its a tough job seeking market.

I really do not know what to do. Someone up thread asked what matters more, my home or my pride. My home matters. I would hate to lose this home and to struggle financially. But I would also hate to become more and more fucking miserable and trapped.

No judicial mediation has been offered yet or mentioned. I do have a meeting with my lawyer soon though.

Having reread your message op, the onus is on you to ask for a package (or your union rep or Thompson). The Employer is unlikely to begin that discussion.

It's impossible to begin to calculate a potential amount without more information. Be mindful your employer will be receiving advice from their own lawyers and any offer made to you will be limited to the Tribunal's awarding criteria. The huge settlements are newsworthy and the averages are very modest so it's best not to get too carried away. Thompson's will be able to advise the minimum, maximum and median award levels and how best to pitch any negotiations.

You don't say how long the Tribunal hearing is set to last as that will have an impact on the Employer's costs which may in any event insured.

I would, on the back of a fag packet and without any of the paperwork estimate a reasonable settlement to be: 6 months salary paid gross, PILON and stat leave paid net and there may be some capacity for an award in relation to personal injury but these tend not to be high, probably about £5k but there may be more than one admitted liability.

It is unlikely that you would win more at Tribunal than a settlement and you will have huge stress before and during and I would only do it if Thompson's are unequivocal that a costs order won't be made against you.

Much will hinge, if you win, on whether your medical/clinical issue(s) are such that you will be unable to work again and that is an exceptionally high bar.

Definitely take the offer. We went through something similar with DH and initially we thought of taking the company to court, as he wanted them t be held accountable for the way they had treated him. However we got legal advice from a barrister at a London employment law firm via a friend who is a barrister in another area and he said that the courts for employment law are backlogged so any case wouldn’t be heard for at least 18 months, in which time we would have nothing and that the company had deliberately offered a bit more than the max likely award from the court (to make sure it didn’t go to court).
The average tribunal payout in UK is much lower than what you’re being offered. Unfortunately this area of law isn’t fair and DH was certainly not compensated for the horrendous way he was treated, nor will he ever be able to earn the same again, so his ongoing earnings have been affected until he retires. But we took the settlement and used it to pay off a large portion of the mortgage, so we have a lower payment and he took a different lower paid job, where he has less stress and isn’t bullied and mistreated. We are a year on from taking the settlement and so much happier.

I would take it, I think. Mostly for own mental health reasons - workplace issues like this are incredibly stressful and draining (but you don't need me to tell you that!) Once you have the cash in hand you can draw a line under it and start to recover.

I'd also look at what any decisions about awards are likely to be based on.

Things that will be taken into account when calculating how much your employer might offer you:
PILON
leave accumulated
Enough of a settlement to give you some breathing space to recover from awful treatment and find a new job (12 months probably might be deemed more than sufficient, this may also depend on your age and skill set)
Any injuries which have directly and clearly caused by their staff and the likely costs of ongoing treatment which you would otherwise have to pay out of pocket
The costs of potential litigation plus impact (it's often wiser to offer more at settlement than a tribunal might award as it is actually a saving on legal costs and longer term staff resources)
Whether your employer is willing and/or able to settle quickly

Things that will not be taken into account:
Your mortgage
Your husband's job security
What your mum thinks

The last three are all dependencies on outside factors that have nothing to do with your employer.

Take it, invest it and move on for your own mental health

It’s a difficult one. If you win a tribunal will award compensation for injury to feelings (max £45k) and losses arising from discrimination. At the moment you still are employed by them so your losses are zero. You could try resigning and claiming constructive dismissal, but given you’ve put up with their treatment that may be hard to evidence.

Realistically you are unlikely to do any better than this under a settlement.

You could stay employed and sue for discrimination, or settle with an exit for a reasonable amount.

You have two realistic options OP.

You accept the award and pay off most of your mortgage and get a lower status, lower paying job in which you are happier and remove a raft of stress from your life.

Or

You go to your current employer and state clearly that on reflection you wish to drop the claim and work very hard and in the best interests of the organisation moving forward (with reasonable agreed adjustments in place). In order to do that you will need to have a good attendance and performance record, be willing to be managed and to be reintegrated as part of your team.

That sounds like a good offer. If you stay on how much longer will it be before that find grounds to dismiss you anyway?
No qualifications are as niche as you may think. I'd grab the offer. That's just over a years pay, if you tighten your belts it could possibly get you through 18months or more. That's a long time - apply for anything that looks interesting.

This offer seems like a good offer. It will allow you to leave almost immediately. It will then give you headspace and time to think & plan.

Why don’t you start a business? Either one based on your niche knowledge or one that has nothing to do with it but will bring in income.

Many people are starting and running successful businesses despite the current climate.

Hi
Having been through this myself, I would say take the package, that package is probably worth nearer to £70k when you factor in the leave. That is a lot of money paid in one go and a huge amount to pay off of your mortgage.

You will be so much happier and free from all the stress and mental anguish. I would see if you could get some life coaching to talk through options, think about what you enjoy and are good at and look at how you could use these skills moving forward.
We are 12 months on from where you are now, for us it has been so positive. I would think about where you want to be in 12 months and how you want to spend the next 12 months.

Either way staying is not reasonable and in your best interests.
So really, your choice is go with the money or not. The risk ofgoing the whole hog would not be something I would advise.
We had a colleague in a similar position. Was offered 30k went to tribunal. Asked for offer to be put back on table. It wasn't. He "won" 6k.