What could employers do to better support those aged over 50?

[MumsnetJobsTeam]

Many people - especially women - find it harder to find work once they hit 50, particularly if they've had a career break. Even within the workplace older people can face discrimination, whether being passed over for promotion, treated with condescension, or expected to have the same needs and requirements as someone younger.

We'd love to get your thoughts on how older people are treated in the world of work. Do you think there is discrimination? In what ways are older people harmed by policies and attitudes? And most importantly, what can employers do to better support those over 50?

Mumsnet Jobs is committed to campaigning for greater flexibility and equity in the world of work, and so on February 25th, we'll be putting your comments to a group of top employers who have gathered at MNHQ to learn how they can improve.

Well said @ErrolTheDragon

I’d like to see more respect for experience. It’s one thing to have younger managers, but patronising attitudes are all too common, with co
-workers assuming they know best. If you work in some of the more traditional male-dominated sectors, it feels like you are hit with the double whammy of ageism and sexism!

I echo the comments from posters who’ve noted the need to build in some flexibility to allow workers to care for elderly parents, and not just children.

Don’t assume that if you are 50 or older you must be old/tired/winding down/ not interested in new challenges.

It might feel hard for the husband and wife to be up from 12 mid night to 2am with the screaming baby and then leave for work at 7.30am but it pays off in the end.

I'd agree with that now I'm 60 and have hindsight and an awesome pension. At the time it nearly fucking killed me though.

Acknowledge the fact that there are fewer 50+ women in the workplace. Loads of men but not so many women. Particularly in corporate environments. So talk about it and highlight that this is a result of the past and should not continue.

I agree @ErrolTheDragon - it's like someone who doesn't need to use their sick leave "entitlement" (um, because they have been lucky enough to not be sick!) saying they want to use their "entitlement" because their colleague has used all theirs.

Parental leave is there to help people with DC with the plethora of challenges that they bring. If you don't have DC you don't have those challenges associated with DC so why should you be granted leave.

All employers should read the book Invisible Women and then consider if their policies are really supporting women equally.

I'm not over 50 so feel free to tell me to stay in my lane but surely employees should all be tested with support, compassion, flexibility and regular sessions where someone checks in with them to ask 'how can we make your work life better?'

My husbands company does this and then will tailor that employees work to suit their needs, we have a disabled child so DH gets a lot more flexibility with work hours to attend appointments or school runs for the other children because his boss knows DH is a good employee who will deliver.

This in turn has meant DH staying with them for years longer than his original contract, working bloody hard and valuing them because they vs,he and respect him.

All employers should do the same, it's not rocket science and whilst some people will take the piss, the majority would be happier at work.

Stop making them redundant.

but surely employees should all be tested with support, compassion, flexibility and regular sessions where someone checks in with them to ask 'how can we make your work life better?'

That's pretty much what I was saying upthread. Not sure if 'regular sessions' are required, so long as there's the right culture.

Sure, but talking specifically about women over 50 as per thread title, this involves organisations taking seriously the responsibilities that women in this age bracket often have - to children and ageing parents - and also taking seriously the impact that the menopause has on some women.

So that women over 50 who need the type of flexibility that you describe Titsalina are given this as well as appreciation and reward for working bloody hard.

IMVHE, men needing time off to attend children's appointments etc is seen as 'isn't he a great hands-on dad?' while women's is more 'she's never here, she's not as committed'.

One of the key lessons from Invisible Women is that organisations think that they have the 'right culture', when it's men who it benefits most.

HRT ..was never offered to me....I started my menopause at 36. Already suffering with depression , I've been in hell for years...im now 50. Still suffering with extreme hot flashes, vomiting, anxiety, lack of sleep . Ive given up getting help .

Jay go see your doctor and see about HRT

First of all older women offer a wealth of experience that younger people have not yet had the time to accumulate.
But secondly don't expect us to run around, lift heavy weights and get things done as quickly as a younger person might. We are going to be a lot more thorough.
As to going for a booze up, just let me know when !
My menopause is long passed but my sympathy goes to to those who have a bad time during it.

Employers need to respect diversity and value everyone's contribution. Older people definitely face discrimination in the workplace.

I think age discrimination is one of the last -isms to be tackled. There have been major advances re: sex, race and disability discrimination which is fantastic. I’ve been on mandatory awareness courses on these subjects at work but age never gets a look in. Almost like it’s embarrassing to still be working in your 60s. Bizarre when there are so many successful female politicians in their 60s - Hilary Clinton, Angela Merkel etc - and also government wants us to work into our late 60s.

With the retrial age now at 68 either employers do something or taxes go up to pay the welfare benefits for some of these woman. I'm about to turn 50 and work in the NHS. I've now got a back injury that's work related. If I make it close to the retirement age, how many want me running for the resus trolley, would I actually make it in time ? There are thousands of nurses facing the same future as me. Private or public sector there's a workforce juggernaut heading their way and they need to plan for it.

That should have said retirement age.

I'm in my early 50s and things that affect me are:
Having a child with SEN
Mental health issues (related to both general stress and workplace stress).
Promotion, seniority etc - this is probably the most age and sex related one. Men with a better track record because they haven't taken time out/had the stresses leaping ahead. Older women being valued less by others and themselves.

I think it is important for prospective employees to recognise that the workplace has changed significantly over the years. The sector in which I work was, for a good while, based on one year or short term contracts.
This will make the c.v. quite a document, but it is not relevant in that situation to consider the last five years of work experience. Neither will it always be appropriate to ask for a degree qualification; this was a route that approximately 5% of my generation had available to them.
Despite having had a career it had to be side-lined, to the greatest extent, because I became a single parent with no other support. The academic year is a hard master when trying to also maintain employment. I recall Hilary McVey once commenting on Dragon's Den that she would employ a single parent above others because they have the experience of having to constantly meet targets and succeeding.
These are not matters that are considered when employing women over 50, they are merely indicators that the 'essential' proof of qualification is lacking and there are times when, as Priti Patel would have it, we were 'economically inactive'. I am currently economically inactive as I am taking a foundation degree.
Having recently applied for a post that my experience fitted perfectly, the requirements of the person specification were met in full and I made a strong application, if I say so myself. In response I received the generic 'thanks, but no thanks' letter telling me that I had not met the specification, so I wrote and asked for specific information on that point. No reply was received. If a £2 million a year charity cannot fulfil good basic business practice with courtesy where does the problem lie?
I think it important for prospective employers of mature women to acknowledge that their own inability to assimilate with a range of experience that does not match their own does not constitute a lack of relevant experience in another.

To me this is generally about unconscious bias. There has been a lot of focus on men v women, but ageism has been overlooked in my view.

FWIW I absolutely would not want anyone changing anything for me relating to menopause - I feel that is my business and don't want my work knowing about my body... (however, that is me)

AtMyDesk it's easy to say that if you don't need any adaptions made.

But it's not a viable position for women who are greatly and negatively affected by menopausal symptoms which are outside of their control.

It's a personal choice whether to disclose medical problems of course, but if your functioning is adversely affected, it's desirable that women can disclose knowing that they'll be supported as per the Equality Act and not sacked via a capacity procedure, I'd had thought.

My workplace (university) offers us constant training, free coaching, and careers advice and also organises a women's group with puts on a circuit of speakers so we can learn about menopause, assertiveness, interview techniques etc, and gives us a chance to network in a friendly environment. It's so nice to feel that you are not alone.
It's organised but a very senior member of staff which gives us all the feeling that we are listened to aswell.
Only downside is that salaries are quite low, and there is little space for advancement.
The things that have really helped me at age 52 is flexible working (so I can get a seat on the tube) and wfh days which mean that dh and I can juggle so DD doesn't always come home to an empty house. Also I work with other people my age and stage in life which is great! so we don't tut or roll our eyes when one of us forgets something or can't remember what we were saying!
Having workplace 'well-woman' health screening would be great so we could be up to date on mammograms etc, and maybe being able to see a trained menopause health practitioner just so we understand the symptoms and treatments available. My menopause has been good because I got really quick HRT from my doctor, so many other aren't so lucky.
Another bone of contention for me, is the jargon used in job ads 'key deliverables' wtf! I would like job ads to be written in plain English, and to clearly state how flexible their working practices are. I don't want to have to work somewhere for 6 months and then learn that no-one works from home because the manager doesn't like it.
That's all I can think of now, may be back later with more!

I really don't like this idea that women over 50 need to be considered fragile, in gerneral. Of course, individuals who suffer menopausal symptoms requiring adjustments should have them, as they would for any other health condition. I've worked hard to reach a senior position in my organisation, and I'm nearly 50, but often I am still treated like a little girl. Once I am post menopausal and look my age I expect I'll be an old woman and can then be humoured for that reason. My male colleagues reaching age 50 consider themselves to be in their prime. I don't need there to be another sex-related reason not to reach my potential.

I don't think that anyone has suggested that women over 50 should be considered to be fragile.

Just that women in this age group are supported with the specific difficulties that many have, including menopausal symptoms, caring responsibilities which the lion's share of which still fall to women, so that they can reach their potential at work.

Make an effort to encourage all forms of colleague socialising. Many work environments organise boozy nights out which aren't quite so appealing to older workers.

This is a good suggestion. At my first place of work, anyone who didn't want to engage in Friday night pub crawls, clubbing or bawdy activities like Ann Summers parties got largely left out of the work social scene. Even as a young 20- something it wasn't really my cup of tea but if you didn't join in you were not seen as a team player.

My current workplace is more likely to offer up a meal out with optional drinks afterwards, which is more palatable to those over 25. We once had a big leaving do for a few people where we hired the outdoor dining area of a pub for an afternoon. Had a leisurely lunch, those who wanted to had a few drinks and then we got buses home instead of having to hang around a taxi rank in the middle of the night. Nearly the whole department came to that one, which wouldn't have been the case if it had been in a noisy bar with standing room only followed by a nightclub and a kebab on the way home.