What could employers do to better support those aged over 50?

[MumsnetJobsTeam]

Many people - especially women - find it harder to find work once they hit 50, particularly if they've had a career break. Even within the workplace older people can face discrimination, whether being passed over for promotion, treated with condescension, or expected to have the same needs and requirements as someone younger.

We'd love to get your thoughts on how older people are treated in the world of work. Do you think there is discrimination? In what ways are older people harmed by policies and attitudes? And most importantly, what can employers do to better support those over 50?

Mumsnet Jobs is committed to campaigning for greater flexibility and equity in the world of work, and so on February 25th, we'll be putting your comments to a group of top employers who have gathered at MNHQ to learn how they can improve.

I don’t need patronising special treatment because I’m “old” thanks very much. I’m 56, have elderly parents, teenager and menopause but so what? Everyone has something to deal with in their lives. I don’t want my very male dominated workplace to be making concessions for poor little girly me.

Never consider yourself as a woman ,think of yourself as a person .

Clarifying earlier post - core working etc should be across the board. But it would help retain women before they are fifty if they have children. Meaning more 50+ still working.

We have a huge drop out rate in our industry, most females are 20s or 30s.

I think this is about employers having policies to support the 'whole person' (ie life-work balance) and to look honestly at job roles and whether they can be managed on a flexible basis - including flexible hours, part time working, agile working etc - if people want this.

My role has recently being designated as being suitable for agile working as there is only a certain part of the day when we are client facing, on a rota, and all employees within our organisation are supposed to have the opportunity for flexible working but I think this depends a lot on your individual manager. Mine is brilliant and amongst my team we have a lot of different working patterns due to people's individual needs - caring for DC, elderly parents and health issues.

I would say that because we feel valued and trusted we also give back in that most of us will voluntarily take on extra work at busy times and do this at home around our other commitments.

I feel personally (and I know that I am lucky) that I have been supported through the difficult time of my 50's, being a typical 'sandwich' with elderly parents the same time as teenage DC. However I would also say that the policies that have enabled me to receive this support also supported me to work child friendly hours with younger DC.

On a different note, my brother who lives in another part of the country so didn't have the daily concerns of our parents and also doesn't have DC has also had similar flexible working arrangements agreed (part time and agile). Part of me is jealous that he gets to have his work-free hours as 'me-time' rather than using them to look after others but on the whole this is good to see that his employees are applying flexible working policies across the board .

I'm 54.

I don't feel as though I need extra support. The company I work for looks out for all its employees.

At different stages in our lives work can take its toll , whether it's returning to work after children , divorce , death of parents or even a partner.

The only thing that I would wish is that I could not attend Team meetings and have to talk corporate bullshit

I find a big negative is this continual commenting on menopause making people anxious, forgetful et.al. some employers are starting to believe this and post menopause women are starting to be seen as stupid and unemployable.

lollybee1
Firstly anxiety and forgetfulness ("brain fog") are recognised menopause symptoms which DO affect some (not all) women, so it's not a case of employers 'believing' this (as if it's some sort of myth) but acknowledging it may be an issue for some women and being willing to consider making (perhaps temporary?) adjustments while they navigate this phase, seek help and hopefully find relief/ satisfactory ways of managing their symptoms.

It's really no different to an employee having a 'blip' for mental health reasons, or surgery, or being a new parent - all times in an employee's life when their performance at work may be (temporarily) impacted.

As the stats I referred to before mentioned, as many 1 in 4 women had considered leaving work because they couldn’t cope with their menopause symptoms - that's massive - especially as we are an increasingly ageing population.

post menopause women are starting to be seen as stupid and unemployable - where is the evidence for this? And if it were the case, the solution is not to bury your head in the sand going "la la la" and hope it doesn't happen to you. A little bit of education and understanding can help a lot.

@captainfleebag yes, I think that is key, I work for an organisation that has flexitime, the option to reduce work share pattern, I have 23 days leave and I can take a half a day for any appointment or sickness without any need whatsoever to explain my absence.

@lollybee1 yes, employers will begin to believe this consciously as well as perhaps already subconsciously if we start looking for special allowances for menopause. If you work for a decent company like mine/ @captainfleebag then you don't need to explain yourself.

And to be honest I don't want to know anything about my colleagues' prostate glands or piles so the KEY is to allow people the privacy to book time off for their own needs.

Norma, I was just saying it isn't helpful that I get tarred with the same brush. Whether it needs highlighted and talked about or not, it DOES have a negative impact on how people view post menopausal woman. It's a bit liked the dithery old people stereotype.

I had DD 22months ago with a tear that wasnt stitched, i felt a lump at my rectum, 6weeks PP I went to see a gynecologist who said my vaginal is still healing
Since I felt no pain or discomfort I let it slide but now I am 33weeks pregnant and I have my fears about the lump, still no pains or discomfort.
Does anyone have similar experience? Is there any complications?

Ajayi2020 Wrong thread I think?

lollybee1 - but surely then we should challenge the stereotyping, not hide the facts?

It is very similar to how mental health used to be perceived, with people struggling on, trying to hide their stress, anxiety, depression etc. It was only when it became 'OK' to talk about mental health that even senior, male, directors etc began to admit they sometimes had issues.

But I agree completely with @SalmonOfKnowledge - in an ideal world, building in some flexibility to allow employees to manage their own health appointments/ needs etc is the best way forward.

I think you need to revisit this "Over 50s" idea that is old and people that age need support. In todays world that is just not old.

Having had a child early 30s and one at 40, hitting 50 I will be parent of an older primary age child and a teenager, almost adult. After many years of part-time work, arriving at work shattered after sleepless nights x 2 , juggling child care, time off due to complications in pregnancy etc, I am actually looking forward to getting back to full time (well almost full time hours) without any of those complications, earning a full time wage.
The only thing I could do with support is, is coping with the management level tier where I work and the constant "strategic" reogranisations, currently going through another. I actually think it is the generation aged 30-40 who need more support. Going through all of the above with massive childcare bills, little future in terms of promotion (restructuring reducing management jobs, flatter structure), many more years of paying mortgages than me due to higher house prices and even longer to go till retirement with much less generous pension scheme.

Surely work ethic and attitudes are the most essential part of being over 50.I am 53 and work in a male dominated and younger persons field really.I can put the 20 somethings to shame with my stamina.
The only thing I would be suggested would be menopause help in the workplace.That said I personally love the long days as I get paid by the hour.
I did however struggle with menopausal arthritis...didn't know at the time.Menopausal anxiety had to change jobs as I couldn't drive and not flushes needing 3 baths a day.more recently constant peeing which was knocking my confidence.I thought I would sail through the menopause which I didn't for 3 years.
I understand some employers maybe reluctant to take on someone who may need understanding of support(I've had neither)
However our experience and reliability are invaluable and now I'm sorted on HRT finally I can see no issues moving forward.
In fact I work a 50 plus week and do more than in my 30s.

I don't think anyone has suggested that people have to disclose any types of health problems or medical appointments to their colleagues, or even their manager/HR unless they want to. .

Framing this debate in terms like 'not wanting my employer to be making concessions for girly little me' is why it was perfectly lawful to sack women when they were pregnant for many years (they were going to go off and we wouldn't let a man do that). And why women had to stop work as soon as they got married before that (they're taking men's jobs when they have a man to support them).

Teacupover5 I think it's perfectly possible to think of yourself as a person while recognising that you're a woman, isn't it?

Of course women are at least as capable as men, but there's no getting around the fact that it's women whose work is affected by pregnancy and maternity leave, and possibly menstruation and menopause.

Not every woman of course, but most are affected by at least one of those things.

Adjustments to compensate for disabling symptoms aren't 'special treatment'.

They're exactly what any other employee would receive if they were experiencing the same problems.

More visibly older women in senior mgmt is v important to ensure women leaders are seen as the norm.

Sadly it's difficult for small policy changes to eradicate misogyny.

I am capable and have never taken time off or gone part time and I still struggle to get interviews. Society just doesn't value older women.

Better division of caring responsibilities between men and women working. (I know - good luck with that!)

I have mostly women in my team and they are capable but for most of them their job is the 2nd most important job in their family and anytime a child is sick, there is a hhld problem etc they are the ones taking time off rather than their husbands/partners in their more important jobs.

I think this does impact on perceptions about hiring women and the burden older women have with caring responsibilities for both children and parents.

I'm not saying this perception is right but it does exist.

These 'top companies' (and others, but these should lead) should actively review their staff retention - are there ages at which the tend to lose staff and is there a sex difference? What's your hiring age distribution?

If you're losing experienced staff in their 50s, you're probably doing something wrong . If you're losing more women than men in their 50s (given that men are liable to have health issues and elderly parents too) then you're definitely doing something wrong.

I'd also add that while some of the ailments which may start as people get older can be progressive, the effects of the menopause may resolve after a few years - I don't think it's unusual for women to get a 'second wind'.

There are certainly things that employers can do to support older workers - some of us may still be working into our 70s! Some of this could be structural - like a PP said having offices where the temperature can be managed to suit each person, proper supportive chairs, big enough computer screens/resolution (my biggest bugbear!), good lighting, proper breaks during the day, somewhere to sit down rather than standing all day etc. Also things like being supported to manage stress/anxiety or the physical effects of ageing (whether health issues that only affect women or those that affect both sexes). Reskilling people who have been out of the workplace for a while. Encouraging healthy eating and exercise. Just generally looking after your workforce.

However, I absolutely agree that everyone is different. Some people might want to slow down, others are angling for a seat on the board.

I’m 50 and just about to retrain, go full time in a very demanding new career and study for a masters. I also have 4 children and ageing parents. I don’t want to slow down, I want to make the most of every second I have left!

I find it completely laughable that “women over 50” need special treatment, in fact any worker over 50 ... 50 isn’t old, and many people of this age will be focusing more on their careers having already raised a family etc. I would say that workers in their 50s are quite often more reliable than younger workers
If we were talking specifically about “supporting people in the last 5 years before retirement” (so 60/62+) then I could see valuable discussion, but at 50?!?!

'Women over 50* aren't an homogenous group - we don't need 'special treatment' per se.

We do need, as people have said, organisations to look honestly and openly at their sex-balance across all roles of seniority and consider why women are under-represented in senior positions (in most sectors) and speak to individual women to find out what the barriers are.

Flexible working, actively discouraging ridiculously long working hours, ensuring that women are represented at all levels and in all spheres of an organisation, providing women who have decades of experience opportunities to upskill, retrain, and use their experience to benefit the organisation and their own intellectual needs.

Some women will need - usually temporary - adjustments eg if disabled by menopausal symptoms, or needing to take leave at short notice to care for elderly parents or child, which organisations should provide without these factors going against promotion opportunities etc.

I actually don’t think it is just women; it’s men as well over a certain age. The older you are the more responsibilities you tend to have; so workplaces would help if they could recognise that these responsibilities don’t mean lack of commitment. But they do mean flexibility.
And many of us want to work hard and use our skills, but also keep on learning. As referred to earlier we have another 10 years at least to go in the workplace so why aren’t employers investing in us as much as in graduates. After all we are likely to be there longer than the average graduate!

@BeaStoic; I couldn't agree with your post more.
I'm 57, went through the menopause about 52 and had some hot flushes, which were starting to feel more uncomfortable. I started on bioidentical hormones and soon had no symptoms.

I do understand some women don't want HRT for health reasons but there are so many `natural' alternatives - herbalism, homeopathy and acupuncture for starters.

It's very annoying that so many are seeking to medicalise what is a perfectly natural process. The menopause is not an illness! Periods are usually far more debilitating anyway but nobody goes on about that.

Women find it hard enough to find employment during their childbearing years because employers are terrified about them rushing off to have a baby. So you’d think when we get to middle age we’d have a better chance. But menopause militants are demanding special rooms to have hot flushes in, time off when needed, the right to control the office thermostat and want bosses to be given ‘guidelines’ about how to treat those of us going through ‘the change’. What sort of employer would want to put themselves through all of that?

Those banging on about the menopause are denying women the chance of creative and satisfying employment in their latter years.

Nobody ever died of a hot flush!