What could employers do to better support those aged over 50?

[MumsnetJobsTeam]

Many people - especially women - find it harder to find work once they hit 50, particularly if they've had a career break. Even within the workplace older people can face discrimination, whether being passed over for promotion, treated with condescension, or expected to have the same needs and requirements as someone younger.

We'd love to get your thoughts on how older people are treated in the world of work. Do you think there is discrimination? In what ways are older people harmed by policies and attitudes? And most importantly, what can employers do to better support those over 50?

Mumsnet Jobs is committed to campaigning for greater flexibility and equity in the world of work, and so on February 25th, we'll be putting your comments to a group of top employers who have gathered at MNHQ to learn how they can improve.

@Zenithbear allow for long breaks, unpaid extra holiday for travel etc

This is a great policy if the company is large enough to cope with it - but would need to be applied across the board. We are allowed to purchase back up to 4 weeks additional holiday per year - within business needs. It probably equates to the staff having term time leave for primary aged children.

Nobody I know has purchased back more than a week yet but I am fancying the idea of booking a few extra weeks in January to go somewhere sunny. And for fairness to other employees covering I only take the odd day off during school holidays so that those with school age DC who need the leave can take it (those in addition to the term time contracts).

There's enough of a generation gap as it is. I can't imagine it would go down too well if Jane or Bob were exercising their "right" to extra time off to go on cruises etc by virtue of their age, rather than length of service. So hypothetically someone with 10 years' service age 35 would be in a less "legal" position time-off wise than someone aged 62 with two years of service.

I don't think there should be any extra consideration given to female over 50's TBH. Although I think the menopause is something that employers should be knowledgable about it's no different from having employees with other heath problems. I get debilitating menopause migraines so would have to take time off work for them if I worked. I can't get out of bed without vomiting so getting into work would be tricky.

Women's sickness rates are higher than men's and that just something that employers have to deal with. The number speak for themselves.

I do a social activity that means I hang out with people from all sorts of ages and backgrounds and I've been surprised at how I'm not treated as an 'older person'. (Apart from the younger lads trying not to swear too much in front of me) I find it refreshing.

I wonder if there is less agism these days.

DreemOn I'm not sure that people are advocating for 'extra consideration' to be given to females over 50 other than, as you say, an awareness about the possible effects of the menopause and then treating people in accordance with their needs.

It's not 'extra consideration' - it's exactly the same consideration that would be given to any other employee with the same health condition.

Anyway, Boris is going to get rid of all workers rights😭so this thread is really only hypothetical.

Can I just add my voice to those who have said please, just be willing to employ us!

In my mid forties I spent several years constantly searching for work, having had to take a number of years out to bring up three children. I was out of the workplace for a good 15 years by the time my youngest daughter was of secondary school age and the constraints of childcare and associated costs were finally loosened from me.

Over the years I spent on that search it became abundantly clear to me that ageism was rife and already working against me as I no longer fitted the image of a dynamic twenty-something that most companies I came across appeared to want to project.

It was quite disillusioning.

Luckily I am now working and have been for the last 6 years. Part time and often largely working from home, which suits me absolutely fine, but I did spend a few years thinking that there would never be anything for me again.

What do I think would help apart from banishing that type of ageism? Well from my personal point of view I would have been able to get back to the workplace much sooner if working from home or just working more flexibly had been more widely available.

The menopause? It affects everyone differently and each case should be considered individually. Some of it's effects can be very debilitating (I just prefer that word to calling it disabling, though I really couldn't tell you why). Adjustments should be considered if they can be, but again, I can see why others would not want to follow this route.

For me, being able to work from home is a godsend here, although it wouldn't be an option in all careers. I know how lucky I am, although while I remained out of work I didn't feel lucky at all. I felt as though I was on the scrapheap while only in my forties

That is just my tuppenceworth.

It's not much different for men, in fact possibly worse as they can't cover up baldness and a saggy neck or stick on a load of slap to try to turn back the hands of time. (See Nora Ephron on why hair dye and roll-neck jumpers did more for women's lib than anything else...)

I have a dog-walking friend who was recently made redundant aged 57. He is really down as he can't afford to retire but in spite of innumerable applications no one will give him the time of day.

For some of us it is peak earnings of course as we are on the crest of a wave of a decades long super career! Never give up full time work and pick high paid work and the world is your oyster!

Working for yourself or owning the company helps too as you get to keep all the money.

@IrmaFayLear when I said ,across the board' I meant all employees as in my current work place.

I think that most policies which would be helpful to over '50's are any which are basically around flexiblility , but that these should be applied to all employees (as my previous post yesterday)

.

Xenia

Allow for long breaks, unpaid extra holidays for travel etc. A lot of people including me and my partner want to travel more
Ha! Don't we all! I did once interview someone who said they liked to travel (ie liked going on holiday) and could the company work with that. Nope. Cheeky bugger.

Oh did I come across cheeky? I bloody well hope so . I think there would be more and flexible opportunities for women if we weren't so polite and accommodating.

I think it's likely that some sectors are heading towards sabbaticals/extended leave being the norm rather than the exception.

Thinking of increasing workload, longer hours, more years working until retirement etc. It will be very different from the 'thinking about taking early retirement when I'm 55' years.

Given the importance of retaining skilled staff and the cost of recruiting/inducting/training people, a leave of absence at last partly funded by the organisation for people to travel, spend time with their family etc might be win-win.

Being 50+ and trying to find employment is no joke especially in tech. There are people who are educated, seasoned professionals who get made redundant and can’t ever land a job again.

I WANT to work. I have the ABILITY and DRIVE to work, getting even an interview is nearly impossible.

The government is raising the pensionable age and I am fine with working until then, but I feel the government needs to stop ageism in the workplace and include 50+ people in the diversity requirements. If something doesn’t change many 50+ able bodied former professional people will be forced into falling below the living wage and become a drain on social care. (And lose their homes)

I agree. It is ridiculous to talk about raising the pension age without measures to incentivise employers to employ "older people" (I am going to say women in particular because they step out of the workplace more often.)

There is a severe housing crisis in Dublin where I live and the government doesnt realise that there is a huge untapped group of workers who do not need to find accommodation somehow, they have it already! Instead govts talk about how the workforce has nowhere to live, so this ageism (and sexism) contributes to another huge problem.

I am not anti immigration btw, no objection whatsoever to diversity, i welcome it. But dont ignore the women 50+ who have been looking for work for 5 years and then tell us there are no workers because they have no accommodation. Some dots are begging to be joined up and they are being left unconnected.

Ps the pension age has increased to 66 here and will be 67 for me

I was only encouraging others - if you never give up full time work ever even with a small baby you can avoid a lot of these problems. Young mumsnetters wondering if they should go prt time or stop work just need to factor in what will I be doing aged 50 into that decision making process. That was the only reason I made my post. It might feel hard for the husband and wife to be up from 12 mid night to 2am with the screaming baby and then leave for work at 7.30am but it pays off in the end.

If all women were high-flyers xenia then none would be. There would be no cleaners, childminders, nannies etc. traditionally done by women for other women. No woman can have a full-time, successful career with a family without access to low-paid help. And SAHDs are not the norm.

if you never give up full time work ever even with a small baby you can avoid a lot of these problems.

You can avoid a lot of these problems by going part time too. However, whereas 'all or nothing' costs the employer nothing (other than losing experienced staff - which matters more in higher skill and 'knowledge' industries) the cost for women can be huge. Enabling part time work may have some costs on both sides but IME outweighed by the benefits.

@Xenia you may have to work a little at your influencing skills. Came across as I’m alright Jack

I think everyone in the work force, over 50s, single people ext should be given the same parental type leave as parents. If, for example, a company offers 5 days a year for child emergencies, hospital appointments ext, the same should be given to all other staff. Many over 50s are supporting very elderly parents who have sudden problems which necessitate unplanned hospital admittance, like sudden falls and just like children, have maybe a day or two when they can't be left when they come out. Generally it is the over 50s dealing with these sudden emergencies and quite often it is also younger people who don't have children of their own who are called upon. Most people are prepared to work short staffed quite cheerfully to help out a colleague who has a sudden child care issue. It would help enormously if this help could be reciprocated in the work place as an equal 'entitlement' without people worrying about how these extra domestic responsibilities can be managed. This would mean also that people with kids who didn't need their allowance for childcare could use it in the same way if necessary. Total relief all round as people with childcare problems now will benefit from a system like that when their own parents become old.

I have slogged my way though FT with small children and then as a single parent just as Xenia has. Am also now 50+ on a good salary in a leadership role. BUT I am also a massive champion for flexible and part time / school hours contracts for parents with small children (or anyone else). We offer flexible working, work from home if we can do it, anyone can take some time back for school events etc. We are reaping the rewards as our 70% female highly skilled workforce is staying with us. I have had to push really hard for policy change (PLC) and we are getting better (although this has been won at the cost of me becoming unpopular with the male snr exec team) - but we still have a long way to go. Hopefully my legacy will be a better workplace.

I think everyone in the work force, over 50s, single people ext should be given the same parental type leave as parents. If, for example, a company offers 5 days a year for child emergencies, hospital appointments ext, the same should be given to all other staff.

That makes absolutely no sense, given that the parents have all those additional potential issues as well as their parental responsibilities. Better is to have an understanding that all staff of any age and either sex may have such issues and have appropriate flexibility. If it turns out you don't need that time off, well then you're lucky. It probably helps if you can see these supportive policies as insurance rather than entitlement.

That is why I put entitlement in inverted commas ErrolTheDragon, because I definitely don't see such time of as an entitlement.

There is no such thing as equal levels of problems even when just considering parenting. Some have disabled children with loads of appointments, some have reliable granny help who the totally trust to take over in an emergency. My point was not about having equal caring problems but about equal workplace conditions to deal with any unforseen problems which arise, rather than one section of the workforce not being uncomfortable to access this type of help, when others wouldn't be able to. Sudden emergencies are sudden emergencies whether it's to do with vunerable young or old people. Some people take terrible advantage, others dare not ask. A policy which recognised a wider range of potential family problems with a cut off , obviously, with how much leave is allowable, would be a fairer work place policy.

Generally treat us the same as you would a younger woman with children.
Many 50+ years are caring for older relatives, have appointments, the same as younger.
I have a recently retired teacher friend, of 67 who still cares for her mum.
Flexible hours, pt, or job share, not everyone wants or is able to do ft, whatever their age.

There will be no workers rights soon anyway, lots more sahm's just part of a conservative governments usual plans. Will be impossible for mums to work soon, right back to 1950's folks.