What could employers do to better support those aged over 50?

[MumsnetJobsTeam]

Many people - especially women - find it harder to find work once they hit 50, particularly if they've had a career break. Even within the workplace older people can face discrimination, whether being passed over for promotion, treated with condescension, or expected to have the same needs and requirements as someone younger.

We'd love to get your thoughts on how older people are treated in the world of work. Do you think there is discrimination? In what ways are older people harmed by policies and attitudes? And most importantly, what can employers do to better support those over 50?

Mumsnet Jobs is committed to campaigning for greater flexibility and equity in the world of work, and so on February 25th, we'll be putting your comments to a group of top employers who have gathered at MNHQ to learn how they can improve.

The problem for many women over 50 is that they are on the back foot in their careers because of child care responsibilities, and may have been out of the workplace for some time. The only way to tackle this is at the root, affordable childcare and improved paternity leave so that childcare is equal coupled with addressing with the gender pay imbalance so that women don't feel that it is not worthwhile them working whilst their children are small.

That's what I said; some breeze through, some need HRT

Even with HRT, mine has been very far from a breeze. I had a premature menopause and now I'm in my late 50's I've been taking the stuff for too long (16 years) and had to come off it again. The symptoms are back with a vengeance, but this time I have to sit and suffer and hope they go away eventually.

Anyway... back to the issue at hand. For me, what I've found is that there are no problems in actually getting a job. The problem lies with being taken seriously. In my experience, older women are not valued for their decades of experience, but undervalued and not considered worthy of either promotion, training or responsibility - particularly if you work part-time.

Part of the issue I believe, is that technology moves so fast. It is difficult enough trying to keep up with software developments if you are in full-time work, but for people who have maybe taken a number of years off while looking after dc, or for those only able to work a few hours a week, then it is a very daunting prospect to be faced with constant fast-paced change.

When I left work to have my dc, everything was still DOS and a few emails thrown in. Search engines were relatively new. A few years later when I went back to a finance role, the whole thing had moved over to Windows and I was just expected to get on with it, as everything was supposed to be 'intuitive' and 'easy'. It wasn't. I still feel like I have a great gap in my knowledge. Whenever I need assistance, I'm met with scathing incredulity that I don't necessarily understand what they're on about. They think you're a bit stupid because you can't grasp things quickly. That certainly doesn't help when it comes with wanting to be taken seriously in the workplace.

Sickness absence due to menopause symptoms should be treated in the same way as pregnancy related sickness absence I.e. it should not count as part of your sickness absence.

At 58 and working full time I don't feel any overt discrimination but there is the covert expectation in my area (Higher Education) that working evening and weekends is the norm. I find I have just enough resources to manage a 36 hour week but nothing left after that. It's not that I'm not committed I'm just really really tired even after a 36 hour week and nowadays working a 50 hour week makes me physically and mentally unwell.

What would be useful is a skills assessment where you can understand an individual’s knowledge and expertise. In my industry there is a gap that needs to be plugged by writing down the stuff that the senior (age wise) stuff that people just know and is currently difficult to transfer. Plus there are a lot of softer skills that are absorbed through experience that could be called upon. New tech can always be learned and the younger generation have a monopoly on that but that’s easy to do.

Maybe part of that is valuing the idea of mentors?

I’m 51 and it has not crossed my mind (until now) that I am an “older woman”. Policies that benefit everyone (flexible working, carers’ leave, good career structures) also benefit people in my age-group. No need to label us or treat us differently.

Re sickness absence due to menopause symptoms - I think it should be treated the same way as sickness absence due to menstrual symptoms.

I have been freelance since my late 20's & work came to me, I didn't have to look for it. This changed as I entered my 50's & then I was blindsided by the menopause. I tried many different types of HRT which would help for a while but not permanently. Weeks of sleeplessness, hot flushes, inability to manage stress & body temperature resulted in losing confidence in my ability to do my job and I had to give up aged 59. My menopause has lasted 12 years so far. My male colleagues seemed alarmed and uncomfortable when my symptoms were apparent and my younger female colleagues had no patience with my frequent inability to find the right word in a meeting. I had been very senior, managing large teams, managing complex projects and had no idea this could happen to me. If I thought I was losing it, I understand why my colleagues thought so too. Yes it's 'normal', but like childbirth experiences there is no normal. Other women trying to brush it under the carpet because it was fine for them make me mad as hell (along with everything else). Some understanding in the workplace about what women are going through, not overloading menopausal women with stressful deadlines & flexible working days to accommodate poor sleep patterns would be a start. Fans on desks would be brilliant. Many menopausal women are also balancing teenagers & aged parents. I was trying to negotiate a 3 day working week which would have been ideal or a job share would have been wonderful.

Everything @BeaStoic said in the 2nd reply.

New tech can always be learned and the younger generation have a monoply on that but that's easy to do

Easy? Actually no, it isn't always all that easy. It can be learned, but when you get older it takes longer and considerable repetition for it to sink in. Just when you've got the hang of it, the darned thing changes again. Once you are beyond a certain age, it takes time to adapt, especially when you are suffering from menopausal brain freeze.

Good grief. This is really patronising and unpleasant. Being a woman over fifty is not in itself something that requires a special stance from employers. We are just people. Sure, some women in that age group are going through a difficult menopause. But then the question should be 'How should employers be more supportive to women going through a difficult menopause?'

I'm 57. I have a shitload of problems, but none of them are in virtue of being a woman over fifty. And the menopause was GRRRRREAT.

I'm sure there is a progressive intention behind this thread somewhere, but the effect of it is just to repeat the old error of viewing older women as some sort of species apart, defined in terms of differences and deficits.

My workplace has started to take menopause into account for sickness ant it is mentioned in the conditions for “reasonable adjustments”.
Much too late for me, thank goodness I had an easy menopause.

However, as a 60 + woman, I have neither the strength nor the energy I had when younger, even if you don't count my heart issues, and this has recently come to the fore with the advent of “agile working” . No longer having desks, no available lockers, no accessible storage for equipment, plus the joys of lugging everything about in an inadequate trolley, designed only for laptops and a few documents.
I realised this is an issue for our ageing workforce when 4 colleagues said the same things independently in one week. We are collectively taking this forward, so I’ll let you know how we get on.

Sounds like your company has adopted the buzzword as a means of cost reduction rather than understanding the concept as a means of increasing productivity. If you're not physically agile then having a static desk and not having to lug stuff around may be the appropriate 'flexible' option. For some it might mean having a laptop for home use and then using a 'pool' computer in the office.

I'm 59, but don't consider myself to be an older woman, and the last thing I want is to be singled out and given "support" thank you very much. I can't think of anything worse.

Our boss recently provided showers, so we could cycle to work or go running at lunchtime. As an "older" worker (early 50s) it means I can maintain my fitness much better, allowing me to keep working at top rate much easier.

I'm sure he's realised it's paying dividends.

I think this is a difficult one because on one hand I can see the point some posters are making about not wanting be singled out as ageing women and feeling a bit patronised.
Those with menopause problems should feel able to get support from the company/their manager/HR without a big hooha about 'Older Women'

YY to PP saying simply 'Employ Us' and those saying make it easier for women to do flexible hours, part time etc to enable them to carry on working if they want to while they have caring responsibilities and therefore making a return to work easier. I found it very difficult to get a decent job after my children got old enough to not need me as much. Now I work full time in a basic low paid job and I'm very tired and pretty poor.

Training for menopause- all managers- it's impact and what can help

Expand home working wherever possible. Commuting can be hell.

Consider providing a separate office so one can open the window/ turn down the air con at least to cool, rather than sit in the over heated saunas the young ( it's true) seem to prefer

All social stuff genuinely voluntary. The last thing I want is to sit in a noisy bar with some 20 #somethings. I am an extreme introvert and this was hell even when I was one myself.

Working from home is a great help.

Treating all colleagues with respect and trusting them

um.
nope, can't think of a thing.
Probably anti-ageism, anti-prejudice training, but I haven't encountered them at all, anyway.
Maybe I have forgotten what it's like to be a young worker and what they offer instead that's so different.

In the 21st century, 50 is NOT old.

I will be 50 soon, and I most definitely do not consider myself to be ‘older’. Quite the opposite, in fact. I am not a ‘victim’ of discrimination and I do not require any special treatment on the basis of my age or gender.

Any patronising idiot who suggested I did would get a very blunt response indeed.

I find the whole thread patronising. Everyone has different challenges at different ages. If you want to succeed at work, you have to manage them. I'm 49 and work with a much younger (on average) team but my experience makes me the best performer (in terms of targets) of all of them. No way is my employer thinking of getting rid of me and I will manage menopause so that doesn't change.

I will manage menopause so that doesn't change.

Hopefully you'll be able to - it doesn't affect some of us so much as others. But that's quite a lot down to luck, I expect there are women here who blithely thought that at 49 but it turned out differently.

I havent read the thread so apologies if anyone has already suggested these:

• Introduction of policies to accommodate & help with menopause issues such as forgetfulness, lethargy, sleep deprivation, hot flushes, mood swings (Meg Matthews has done work on this)

• Free technology up-skilling/re-skilling (SAP/XERO/MS Teams/Cloud etc..)

• Free work methodology up-skilling/re-skilling (Six Sigma/Kan-Ban etc..)

• Make sure a capable woman is involved in every department.

• Appoint more women to the Board

• Offer real flexible working

• Check your pay parity (men v women)

• Ask your older female staff what they’d like

• Offer proper training & career planning