Response to lukewarm reference

[Alanis126]

It recently came to my attention that a biss wrote a lukewarm reference for me ca. 10 years ago. I am.not anticipating any benefit at all from challenging them on this but neither am I willing to let them get away with it. I have drafted but not sent an email to the person in question who refuses to speak to me about it over the phone. It is polite but firm amd points out that I got a better job than the one for which this manager wrote the reference shortly after. All I want to know is ( amd please, no naysaying "best not take any chances" replies) provided I stick to facts plus add that I think they for this reference wrong and I did not appreciate what they wrote am I in any way legally exposed myself? The reality is everyone hated management everyone was leaving and the lukewarm reference was written to stop me getting a job and leaving.

I'm an employer, if I received what you propose after ten years, I would think;

You have mental health issues

Be relieved you left

You seen hellbent on sending this letter, regardless of what anyone on here says.

It is going to depend on what you say. If it along the lines of 'I am not happy you wrote a mediocre reference rather than a glowing reference for me 10 years ago' then fine. It does not seem that is what you want to say.

If you go into the realms of accusing the person and not being factual (i.e. you were a terrible person, you were a bully, you are a nasty person) then you could end up bordering on defamation.

It seems you are conflating two issues - a reference that you do not think was good enough 10 years ago and how you were treated in that job. The reference may have been mediocre, but you still got the job and I can understand that it may sting if you have only found out about it now, but it is 10 years and in all likelihood the person has forgotten both what they wrote and who you even are so the letter will mean nothing and either become a laughing piece or just thrown in the bin.

It seems to be you are linking the reference to how you were treated and if you had grievances in that employment you should have raised them then. No employers should not treat staff badly, but it was your responsibility, if there was an issue, to raise it then, not to wait 10 years and raise a complaint as you have no idea what that person is like now. It is the waiting 10 years to tell a former employer that they treat staff badly that is odd.

You need to think hard about what you want out of it. If you want to send a letter to say you are not happy that 10 years they sent what you think to be an unfair reference then fine, but telling them that and that they are bad employers will have no impact and you will not get any of the satisfaction you are expecting as the letter will just be binned and laughed at after all this time.

Surely it depends what the OP seeks to gain by this. I have a certain understanding, regardless of how many years ago it was. It's a reverse situation but step 9 in AA is making amends. We do this where our behaviour has harmed others, no matter what the timescale is. I had some rather surprised reactions when I first did mine (and there are limits) but it's to do with doing the right thing for your peace of mind.

”I think I am entitled to make my own decisions on matters that only impact me regardless of the weight of opposing opinion. To do otherwise would be close to giving into bullying”

No one is saying you don’t have the right to make your own decisions.

And if everyone thinks ‘A’ but you think ‘B’, reflecting on whether you may possibly be wrong and revising your actions as a result isn’t “giving in to bullying”, it’s being sensible and considered and adult.

Honestly I think there are better ways of getting back at the bosses. I'm sure they were shit, ive met plenty who are.

Are you in a position to employ people now? Poach their staff and THEN write the email about the old reference when you're emailing for the new reference. Or write a terrible review on Google or glass door or something.

@CornishMaid1 put it far more eloquently than me. Spot on.

I agree that bullying and poor management should be called out, but you have to do it at the time, or shortly afterwards, not a decade later.

I am with the nearly 100% on this thread - you need to get past this for your own sake - but I am not under any illusion you will listen.

They have no power over me and I'm not interested in their opinion, just in not letting them off the hook.

What you're not getting is they are not 'on the hook'. This is ancient history to them. This happened 10 years ago and they likely won't even remember you. I can tell you now on the receipt of your email they'll think 'no wonder I gave them a lukewarm reference' swiftly followed by them using the delete key or having a good laugh with their teammates about it. Is that what you want? To make a fool of yourself?

I agree with the OP.

I'm trying to get my head around what I've just read. You sound very upset, angry and scorned. I get that.

Without knowing what was written, it is hard to judge whether it is worth calling them out. If you think you'll get an apology then go for it. Otherwise, is it really worth the stress. It will either open a can of worms or leave you further dissatisfied.

For Mumsnetters, an update after you've had a response would be an interesting read. You've brought it onto a public forum, so we all await your updates

I think I’d leave it but If you really want to write something I would make a joke about it.

More of a “haha, just found the reference you wrote for me 10 years ago, I guess you didn’t want me to leave. 😂😂😂😂 No harm done thankfully as I got/did XYZ. Anyway how are you? Not that I care lol”

You need to be mindful that he/she may share your email. (I’d also send it from a unique email address)

I think it’s best to send nothing though.

Once again, the British working culture of dysfunctional management thrives on making employees feel their grievances are illegitimate and finding ways of disagreeing with any action they take.

A significant number of people who don't get on with management, and aren't prepared to put up with a dysfunctional culture, tend to realise they just aren't cut out for corporate life and go on to work for themselves.

My DH is one such person, he long ago accepted there were so many compromises he wasn't prepared to make, he is now happily "unemployable" in the normal sense of the word, he's his own boss in a consultancy. He doesn't spend emotional energy 10 years later raging at the unfairness of it all, as there's too much other stuff to do.

If you've got too much time on your hands, and you don't mind perpetuating your own feelings of rage and injustice, then I recommend you send the letter. When you fail to get any response from them and know there is no legal recourse (Tribunal deadlines are set at 3 months from the misdemeanour) it will keep the all-consuming feelings of hatred alive a lot longer for you. What's not to like?

Wtf have I just read?!

Once again, the British working culture of dysfunctional management thrives on making employees feel their grievances are illegitimate and finding ways of disagreeing with any action they take.

I advised OP not to send the letter in my previous posts on this thread. If she had a current grievance I would encourage her to raise it.

But this happened ten years ago.

Unfortunately raising it now does nothing but make the OP look obsessive and odd.

Whereas I would have been 100% supportive of her filing a grievance at the time.

Flagging a grievance from ten years ago is a totally different situation to flagging a current one.

If I got that from an ex employee I would think you were mad, probably wouldn't remember you from 10 years ago but would definitely remember you from now on, glad you left and wish I wrote a worse reference.

Op, are you ok?
You really don’t sound ok
I hope you are getting some help with your issues

@insancerre I am not convinced the OP has issues. i think they believe everyone on here has issues.

@Alanis126 what did you do in the end, OP?

10 years ... let it go. At least it wasn't negative ...

Op wether it's legal or not depends.

On wether you are going to let it go if you don't get the response you want.

You can not prove their subjective opinion is wrong. They are extremely unlikely to have anything that they could check the reference against anything about you personally would have gone. Appraisals etc.

So no one can actually do anything. The manager, assuming they still work there, probably wont remember you. No one will have anything recorded to check the reference against. So can not prove if his/her subjective opinion was based in facts or made up.

So you dont get the response you want, or no response, what will you do. Because you say you wont let it go. That quickly becomes harassment.

If an employee of mine tipped up 10 years later and disagreed with something I wrote and was so adamant they were letting it go and would make me pay, I would have no hesitation in getting the police involved if you continued trying to contact me. It would make me quite concerned about my safety.