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Original poster

Response to lukewarm reference

145 replies

Alanis126 · 04/12/2019 18:09

It recently came to my attention that a biss wrote a lukewarm reference for me ca. 10 years ago. I am.not anticipating any benefit at all from challenging them on this but neither am I willing to let them get away with it. I have drafted but not sent an email to the person in question who refuses to speak to me about it over the phone. It is polite but firm amd points out that I got a better job than the one for which this manager wrote the reference shortly after. All I want to know is ( amd please, no naysaying "best not take any chances" replies) provided I stick to facts plus add that I think they for this reference wrong and I did not appreciate what they wrote am I in any way legally exposed myself? The reality is everyone hated management everyone was leaving and the lukewarm reference was written to stop me getting a job and leaving.

OP posts:
7salmonswimming · 04/12/2019 23:15

Whether there are legal risks to “calling out” whoever gave you this lukewarm reference depends on what you say and to whom.

It’s like asking if there would be legal risks to not paying your neighbour for some work they did in your garden. It entirely depends.

Separately, this is not an efficient or effective way to make a stand about workplace bullying, or the proletariat being downtrodden. There are better ways.

DianaT1969 · 04/12/2019 23:16

We best revenge is a life well lived. Connect with some staff and managers who are still there on LinkedIn and write gushing posts about how happy and fulfilled you are in your current career. Do a 10 year then and now post "From a toxic work environment full of poor managers to a wonderful career and team".
Get it out of your system and then drop this. Focus on now.

IAmCatBed · 04/12/2019 23:18

Blimey. If you write work emails in the same way as you write MN posts, as your manager, I would be seriously worried about your personal resilience and your ability to do your job.

And quite frankly, I would also be worried about your mental health. This really isn't a normal reaction for something that happened 10 years ago. Yes it was bad and very unfair and I totally understand why you want to have your say. But it's done, gone, was 10 years ago. And it made no difference.

Please let it go and leave it for your own well being. I can promise you that the arse who wrote the reference won't give a shiny shit about what you say. The only person you are upsetting is you.

JoanieCash · 04/12/2019 23:36

@iamcatbed. I had a similar story to the one you’ve just described. Senior colleague and bully, totally forgot about her when I moved jobs but life was awful. 10-15 years later she’s being introduced to me as a new starter in another department. I nearly collapsed as memories flooded back, and then realised she was going to be reporting into me. Her career had stalled. She did not recognise me at all. I reminded her of who I was and where we’d worked, and she tried to reminisce like we were old buddies. She had a shit 2 years at work under me. I didn’t stoop to Her lows, just didn’t let her get away with her old tricks and watched her to make sure she wasn’t bullying others. I’m an arm chair psychiatrist and think she was a narc. She’s out of work now, and It’s a small industry and she’s struggling as she spent 20 years burning bridges all the way round. It’s wonderful.

flowery · 05/12/2019 07:17

How is writing a letter like that “not letting them get away with it”? What repercussions do you suppose the letter will bring for the person you feel so aggrieved at?

PineappleDanish · 05/12/2019 07:21

Nobody is minimising bullying, or saying that it's OK to treat someone appallingly in the workplace. I also get that you're saying that even though it was a long time ago, you feel that the person needs to be held to account.

However, the "lukewarm" reference clearly didn't affect your career. If it's a small industry, chances are that the new company knew what this person was like, and took you on after reading between the lines. You suffered no "loss" as a consequence of what you perceive as a poor reference.

Writing a letter is a very bad idea for all the reasons given above, the main ones being it's 10 years ago, and the person receiving it will most likely give zero fucks and file it straight in the bin. Even if they read it, they won't change their behaviour. That's not calling them out or letting them off the hook. It's just demonstrating that you hold a serious grudge, for a decade, for something which hasn't caused you damage.

You're hellbent on this course of action OP but doesn't the fact that everyone is telling you not to put a little doubt in your mind? It's not 50/50, it's everyone saying this is a poor idea and won't achieve what you want.

Original poster
Alanis126 · 05/12/2019 07:39

**You're hellbent on this course of action OP but doesn't the fact that everyone is telling you not to put a little doubt in your mind? It's not 50/50, it's everyone saying this is a poor idea and won't achieve what you want.
I have acknowledged previously that 100% or close to 100% of posters are opposed to my course of action. Many are vehemently so, and some have chosen to talk very disparagingly. I reiterate that I don't expect action or ŕecompense, and am doing this for my own reasons. I really do find it sad that there are so many people on here who have chosen to be unsupportive and lacking empathy. Once again, the British working culture of dysfunctional management thrives on making employees feel their grievances are illegitimate and finding ways of disagreeing with any action they take. I will be communicating with this individual and the posts here have not dissuaded me at all.

OP posts:
flowery · 05/12/2019 07:41

How do you think this letter will constitute not letting them get away with it?

PineappleDanish · 05/12/2019 07:42

OK then. You're right. We're all wrong.

Crack on.

kalinkafoxtrot45 · 05/12/2019 07:45

Do your thing then, but you are coming across as very fixated on this decade-old injustice. The time to address this has long passed. It won’t do you a jot of good and possibly some harm. That’s not lacking empathy, that’s just being objective.

StCharlotte · 05/12/2019 08:21

I have acknowledged previously that 100% or close to 100% of posters are opposed to my course of action...

...I will be communicating with this individual and the posts here have not dissuaded me at all.

Has it not occurred to you that "100% or close to 100% of posters" could be right?

Anyway, do let us know how it goes.

Dyrne · 05/12/2019 08:27

OP I think you need to seek some sort of professional help; it’s not healthy to be this fixated. You also seem to think you’re on some sort of crusade for the downtrodden workers. Sending an email to someone who did something 10 years ago isn’t going to do anything to help with improving toxic atmospheres in the workplace. If you truly feel that strongly about justice, then become a union rep and advocate for people that way - that will have more chance of actually making a difference than telling someone that they are a very naughty boy/girl for something they did 10 years ago...

BentNeckLady · 05/12/2019 08:33

I’m surprised they give you a reference at all tbh. I’ve you behaved like this at the time I bet you were a nightmare to work with.

Talk about dog with a bone!

badguyduh · 05/12/2019 08:40

OP you didn't answer my question as to whether you think the former boss would view your actions as reasonable. I'm trying to get you to think logically about it.

I asked because: if yes, he would admit you were reasonable to call him out on this - he thinks more generously towards you than nearly every poster here. That would suggest he is a generously minded person, or just thinks in a different way from most other people.

If no, then you have gained nothing and made yourself look unreasonable, and he will think himself justified in what he did.

Original poster
Alanis126 · 05/12/2019 08:40

Has it not occurred to you that "100% or close to 100% of posters" could be right?
I think I am entitled to make my own decisions on matters that only impact me regardless of the weight of opposing opinion. To do otherwise would be close to giving into bullying, to which too many of these posts have come close.

OP posts:
MrsFoxPlus4Again · 05/12/2019 08:42

Bit scared to write anything incase you hunt me down in a few years but what are going doing to do if they ignore your email? I suspect they’ll just have a giggle and discard it Grin

PineappleDanish · 05/12/2019 08:44

I suspect they’ll just have a giggle and discard it

That's if they even remember the OP, and remember writing her a reference, and what they put in that reference. But however it happens, OP isn't going to get a response.

badguyduh · 05/12/2019 08:45

Of course they'll ignore it.
Surely the OP knows that.
She won't say what else she expects to happen.

PineappleDanish · 05/12/2019 08:46

Also OP nobody has bullied you on this thread. Poked fun perhaps. Tried to get to the bottom of your motivations yes. Pointed out flawed thinking. Expressed disbelief that something from a decade ago is still eating away at you.

Shouting "bullies" at every opportunity and when something happens which you don't agree with isn't helpful to anyone who is suffering genuine bullying.

AlexaShutUp · 05/12/2019 09:01

OP, I genuinely don't understand.

You have talked about wanting to call out your previous employers with regard to a negative, bullying culture. However, you've had ten years in which you could have written to them about this. Why is it only now that you're wanting to write to them, and why is your focus on a lukewarm reference that, by your own admission, doesn't actually contain any factual errors?

You appear to be trying to frame this as some sort of brave crusade against bad management, but the reality seems to be rather a case of wounded pride. Unfortunately, you're not kidding anyone but yourself.

The professional and dignified response to this would be to let it go, but you seem hell-bent on writing the letter. As you're no longer in the industry, you may as well send it - it can't really do any harm, and you will probably feel better because you'll be able to convince yourself that you had a pop at them. As long as it's a one-off contact and you don't make threats of any sort, I don't think there would be any legal risks to you in sending a letter. The risks are purely with regard to your own reputation as a professional, which clearly doesn't concern you.

badguyduh · 05/12/2019 09:03

The OP has only recently found out about the reference.

AlexaShutUp · 05/12/2019 09:06

The OP has only recently found out about the reference.

Yes, I'm aware of that, but my point is that she has supposedly known about the negative, bullying culture for the last ten years. If this was really about holding bad management to account, she would have done it years ago. The fact that she is doing it now suggests that it's purely about the reference and the damage to get ego.

AlexaShutUp · 05/12/2019 09:07

her ego.

AFairlyHardAvocado · 05/12/2019 09:13

People aren't being "unsupportive", they are simply strangers who are actually being supportive by suggesting you don't do something they believe will reflect poorly on you and not achieve anything positive.

If they were unsupportive they'd egg you on to do it and want updates for entertainment.

It's silly to have suggested we just don't understand what you've been through, I'm sure many of us (myself included) have been through awful workplace bullying. You haven't considered people might be advising with the benefit of personal experience and hindsight.

But you don't really want to hear anyone else's view, despite posting on a public forum, so good luck.

melissasummerfield · 05/12/2019 09:15

Living with this attitude is poisonous and will make you a very bitter and angry person OP.

The reference had no impact on your life then, so why let it affect you so much now?

Let it go, you had the last laugh already by going on to succeed when you left this organisation.