Response to lukewarm reference

[Alanis126]

It recently came to my attention that a biss wrote a lukewarm reference for me ca. 10 years ago. I am.not anticipating any benefit at all from challenging them on this but neither am I willing to let them get away with it. I have drafted but not sent an email to the person in question who refuses to speak to me about it over the phone. It is polite but firm amd points out that I got a better job than the one for which this manager wrote the reference shortly after. All I want to know is ( amd please, no naysaying "best not take any chances" replies) provided I stick to facts plus add that I think they for this reference wrong and I did not appreciate what they wrote am I in any way legally exposed myself? The reality is everyone hated management everyone was leaving and the lukewarm reference was written to stop me getting a job and leaving.

I don't get what your question really is?

Despite almost everyone saying it's not a good idea in their opinion, you've made it clear you've already made your mind up about what you're going to do.

You need to let this go, it's had no impact on your career and happened ten years ago. Ten years! This won't do you any favours and is far more likely to harm your reputation than anything else.

And they won't give any response that will bring closure. If they ignore you it's a wasted effort. If they say they simply gave a factual reference it's a wasted effort. If they are as you say bad employers or treat staff badly your email isn't going make them stop, this and change that. They aren't going to apologise or get into a back and forth with you about it...

I know you don't think this is how you come across but (based purely on this thread, I obviously don't know you) you seem confrontational and overly (perhaps unprofessionally) sensitive. If your email tone is similar then you won't be painting yourself in a very positive light.

Are they still working there all these years later?
If it makes you feel better to write a complaint then knock yourself out but anyone receiving a complaint like that is only going to see it as confirmation that they were right to write a less than glowing reference. I don’t see how a reference can be all subjective opinion but also demonstrably incorrect. How would you ever prove that it didn’t reflect their opinion? How could you even know that for sure?
I can’t see this achieving what you want it to. They won’t feel chastened, it will just reinforce that they made the right decision.

If it helps, OP I get it.

I had an awful boss who did lots of illegal stuff but got away with it all. He slated me in a reference (which I never asked for but he posted to me anyways) but fortunately, it was never needed.
I hated him. He was horrible, a bully and I think a threat to many people. He has randomly messaged me recently threatening to tell my new employees how awful I am (I dared to be a woman under 30 at the time), but fortunately when I told them, they laughed and told me not to worry.
More than anything I wanted to reach out to him to destroy him. I wanted to sent evidence to his new employers about how awful he was and to make him feel as terrible as he made me feel, to feel as small and powerless.

In the end I was too busy and I was actually happy, so I never did. I had written a letter at the time which was cathartic, but I never followed through. And tbh, now I just look back and cringe a little bit. A part of me always hopes he gets his arse handed to him one day, but he was so terrible, I truly believe he will. The fact he reached out to me to slag me off just proves that he finds my success more threatening than anything else I could throw at him. If I had of sent him the letter, I think he would use it against me in some way, so I'm pleased I didn't.

Try writing a letter and see how you get on?

What do you hope to achieve?
You won't get 'closure', you won't get an apology and you haven't lost anything you can claim against.
At best you will be ignored, which, I imagine, will anger you further.

What's the point of this post?

OP you've said there were no facts, only opinions, but that they were untrue.

How can opinions be untrue?

You will look bad enough that they will be satisfied their poor opinions of you were accurate after all.

Fair? no. But that's what will happen. They'll feel glad they were right and nothing else will happen to them.

person in question who refuses to speak to me about it over the phone

How many times have you called them? What did you say?

Are you not concerned that they could pursue a complaint of harassment against you?

All of these "you will be the one who looks insane", "just move on", "judging by your responses they must have had a point" responses to me honestly seem part of a kind of blinkered way of thinking which gives infinite indulgence to bullying and unreasonable bosses, & puts all of the expectation of responsibility on the employee. I realise that most people, perhaps even everyone disagrees with me, and some have been moved to write mocking, ironic imaginary versions of what I might write, possibly hoping to get the approval of others. I thanked those who responded to the initial question. To those who have written negative or sardonic responses, all I can say is I hope you are not one day in a position where someone above you in a work situation treats you badly. I am well aware that opinions are just that, however I have reason to believe based on fact that these opinions weren't honestly held. I have worked in different environments and industries before and since, and this one was by far the worst. Many many former colleagues would amd do agree from their own experience that it was a negative and bullying environment with incompetent management. It is hardly any wonder there is so much heartache and so many issues caused by managenent in general when there is so little support shown to those who call them out.

So do you think you would look reasonable to the former boss if you did it?

If you were so outraged by their bullying and incompetence, why didn't you "call them out" back then? Ten years down the line just makes you look ridiculous.

BTW, we have ALL dealt with shit jobs and shit bosses. You get over it and move on.

Youre not conducting yourself well here.

There is nothing to gain from sending a letter.

If they genuinely wrote an inaccurate reference I would imagine that their dishonesty would stretch to not accepting responsibility . I doubt they would magnanimously throw their hands in the air and recognise the errors of their ways. That s assuming it's the same management.

OP I’d be interested too at what your end game is here - you seem determined to “call them out”; but to what end? What are you expecting them to do in response to being “called out”?

If they are truly as awful as you say; they won’t care and you writing to them won’t change their behaviour. You won’t get an apology, either.

Don’t get me wrong OP; I left a previous job due to the horrific toxic work environment. I went full scorched earth in my exit interview; however I know full well it went completely over their head. If I were to write to them now, years later, they would not pay a scrap of attention to it; let alone change their behaviour.

I have to write references for people. If someone attacked me ten years later for having written a less than glowing reference I would feel justified in not having sung their praises. Who would gladly work with someone who harbours a grudge for that long?

There have to be better ways to spend your time than this. You're an adult so you know life isn't fair, not everyone is kind or honest and true and trying to keep a balance sheet to settle old scores will exhaust you. Somewhere along the line someone will have been uncommonly kind to you and you will have not noticed or appreciated their kindness at the time or taken it for granted as your due. Why not spend your time trying to track them down and thank them instead?

I think you should reflect on how you come across. This may or may not be related to the reference but there is clearly scope for improving your people skills

Anyone else hoping for an interesting looking letter to their place of work in the next few days?

@itsboiledeggsagain

I'm waiting for it to show up on Reddit.

As a manager I can't even remember how many references I've written over the years. Good bad and lukewarm.

If I was contacted about a 10 year old reference I'd struggle to remember the content and I'd spend a few minutes thinking you were a nutter and then I'd carry on with my day.

I don't see what closure that would give you.

You need to channel your inner Elsa and let it go.

To answer your initial ques, no, I dont believe there is any legal recourse against you for sending the email, as long as you dont cross into personal attacks.

Seriously though, let it go.

Once again to the recent negative posters, your mockery and derision will have no effect on me. I think it says more about you than me if you persist in this conduct.

Seriously...re-read ALL the responses on here!! You are about to make a MASSIVE tit of yourself...honestly...you'll just be laughed at. Add to that, your mental health will be questioned as you are coming across on here as more than a bit weird 😱. If this is how you conduct yourself professionally, be glad that your reference got as 'hot' as 'lukewarm' 🤭

OP I get it, I've been bullied at work before and would love that bastard to know how well I've done despite what he put me through. But honestly, you're coming across as an obnoxious twat. I have no idea how you think you'll be "not letting them off the hook". I can only surmise that you don't really understand referencing and the world of work in general. Go ahead and send the email as you're so insistent you must 🙄 don't hold your breath for any earth-moving sense of victory or satisfaction. (As if 😂)

Oh goodness. It says a great deal about your conduct. You really should indulge in some self reflection. I would not tolerate your tone if you worked in my team

I totally understand your anger and frustration but please don't do it. It will make you look a tad unhinged, especially after 10 years. They failed, despite writing a shitty reference. You got a better job and left. They are still stuck working there for that shitty employer. That is your revenge so leave it there.

If you work in a specific field your circle of potential employers might be fairly small. You have no idea who might read your email, clock your name and make a mental note that you might be a bit bonkers. In 2 years they might have moved on and be recruiting for the company where you see your next dream job. And they will remember you.

I've tried to find it but there was a thread a while back about what happened to the person who used to bully you at work. There were quite a lot of posts from OPs who had been bullied describing how they had resigned in misery, picked themselves up and moved on, have done really well and then found themselves in a fairly senior role and involved in a recruitment process for a junior post that their bully had applied for.

I am totally basing this on my very unreliable memory of reading the thread so I could be massively wrong, but most of the bullies just didn't recognise their former team member at all. Probably because they didn't make any effort to get to know them and didn't give a shit. A few looked suitably embarrassed when they did realise that the person they treated like shit was chairing their interview panel and a few had the bare faced cheek to get back in contact reminiscing about the fab days when they worked together.

Don't do it OP. You're better than they are!