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Original poster

Is maternity leave sexist ?

360 replies

mozhe · 21/05/2007 00:38

I think so.....surely it should be parental leave that is available to both parents,( or maybe even members of the wider family network, like grandparents ? ), and there should be financial incentives to encourage both parents to take it. What do other people think ? Instead of trying to make maternity leave longer should we not focus on supporting parents back into work sooner and providing better/cheaper/more appropriate childcare...

OP posts:
Original poster
mozhe · 21/05/2007 23:15

Phew was beginning to think we were in for a lynching tonight Xenia !

OP posts:
GiantSquirrelSpotter · 21/05/2007 23:15

I'm not at all cross Mozhe

I'm pointing out that you have deliberately posted something you must, as a regular mumsnetter, know is an infuriating and upsetting comment to a large number of our members.

You know that.

As it happens, I'm not one of the members who would be upset by that, because I recogise it as the inflammatory wind-up it's designed to be. My question is, why would you want to do that? What are you hoping to achieve by it?

I can't imagine it's anything good. And a disinguous "a good debate" is not something I believe, because you know as a regular, that that type of remark doesn't lead to rational debate, it leads to hurt and angry posts, hysteria, apologies, backing down, ratcheting up and general mayhem. Wanting to acheive that, is generally known as trolling.

WK007 · 21/05/2007 23:16

Sorry to be 'sexist' Xenia, but there is a huge difference between mothers and fathers, which is why a mother going back to work is seen in such a dim light by some. I'm not trying to downplay a fathers role at all, they have a total right to be one of the 2 most important people in their child's life BUT;

A baby is carried by the mother, it spends 9 months getting to know her, it knows her voice, her smell and is instantly bonded to her by hormones and its need to feed. Isn't it reasonable that the mother should be expected to spend a few weeks helping it get used to everything else?

Original poster
mozhe · 21/05/2007 23:16

No ,but fathers can father.......it really is just as important.

OP posts:
Judy1234 · 21/05/2007 23:16

I'm not so sure you're right. Don't we have obligations to the people we help in our work (if we have work of any significance that is?). What if we've been trained at tax payers' expense? What if on a daily basis we save lives etc. Plenty of people work for the good of their country and do indeed fit children around that because it's a greater good. People die for their country and leave their chilren fatherless and motherless. If they didn't we'd all be under a different regime today I suspect and some of us would have been gassed because of our colour or religion. It is not always the morally right thing to do to give up work.

GiantSquirrelSpotter · 21/05/2007 23:17

how the hell do you spell disingenuous?

Twinklemegan · 21/05/2007 23:20

When did producing and bringing up the next generation of human beings become so trivial and worthless? Have I missed something?

Twinklemegan · 21/05/2007 23:21

And Mozhe - a few months back I would have been one of those deeply hurt by some of your comments on this thread. You just can't mess around with people's feelings like that.

Original poster
mozhe · 21/05/2007 23:21

Sorry squirrel,I don't see it as hugely inflamatory....and I don't recognize much hysteria around,( believe you me I see a bit of that in my line of work...),I still think it is easy and natural to most people and there is a lot of hullabaloo made about it unnecessarily.....of course I could be wrong, as with everything I say but there it is...I think we've had some good discussion on this thread tonight, but feel free to disagree.

OP posts:
Twinklemegan · 21/05/2007 23:22

Believe me Mozhe, you are so wrong.

LongDistanceClara · 21/05/2007 23:22

Well, of course it is.

Because blokes aren't maternal, are they?

Have only read OP (well, thread title) and am not interested enough to read rest of thread.

But keep seeing it in active convos, so thought I'd post.

Prawns.

LongDistanceClara · 21/05/2007 23:26

Ah, have just read your bf hogwash post, Mozhe.

GiantSquirrelSpotter · 21/05/2007 23:28

LOL at pausing so no C word

You are so restrained...

Original poster
mozhe · 21/05/2007 23:32

eh ? psychiatrists have no special powers re;breastfeeding...I was posting as a mother.Why so upset...

OP posts:
WK007 · 21/05/2007 23:32

Actually, we have to be fair and just to both sexes - so getting pregnant is actually incredibly sexist, after all we don't even give men the option to do it and when we have baby boys we biologically stop them from being able to. So we should stop anyone getting pregnant and be fair to all.

I'm sure that will keep all workplaces happy and filled.....for about 40 years.....ah.

Judy1234 · 21/05/2007 23:35

No one could possibly argue against this thread. In marriage after marriage women are staying home because they get SMP and men don't so it in fact damages women hugely but teh govenrment knows this and agrees with mozhe and I and is doing something about it so I'm hopeful the sexism will be removed and men will have that chance at least in the second 6 months if not before to stay home with the baby whilst their mother has to get on out there and earn a crust. A lot of men and perhaps the husbands of some on this thread would actually hanker for that chance and let ' s hope mumsnetters encourage them to take up the new rights when they come in, in huge numbers.

GiantSquirrelSpotter · 21/05/2007 23:35

No Mozhe you were posting as a regular member of mumsnet who is perfectly aware of how much upset such statements cause.

If you were a newbie, it would be perfectly acceptable - not everyone is aware of the level of emotion that is connected to this. But you're not a newbie are you? You know exactly what effect such a statement is likely to have tomorrow, when x thousand people may click on to this thread.

A rose by any other name...

LongDistanceClara · 21/05/2007 23:35

Because for one who deals with "how people feel", you show little or no insight into how your posts might affect people.

GiantSquirrelSpotter · 21/05/2007 23:36

Yes no one could possibly argue against this thread Xenia.

Twinklemegan · 21/05/2007 23:36

Xenia - arguing for more leave for fathers (which I agree with) is completely different from basically telling mums to get off their fat lazy backsides and get back to work.

Twinklemegan · 21/05/2007 23:37

You're more restrained in this guise aren't you LDC?!

LongDistanceClara · 21/05/2007 23:38

And I do work full time, long days and found bfing largely easier than your average hound.

LongDistanceClara · 21/05/2007 23:38

LOL TM!

Yes, I'm finding sneaky ways to be rude It's more fun...

Judy1234 · 21/05/2007 23:45

I would argue for largely equal rights but may be a little bit more for mothers for those first 6 weeks as now to reflect the fact you might not be fit enough. I think legally it's 2 weeks if you're an employee you have to have off and 4 if you work in a factory before the nanny state determines you are healthy enough to return.

The equalisation of maternity and paternity rights I think has worked quite well in Scandinavia but you still find more mothers at home than men - there's a survey on the DTI web site on other countries and the effects of enhanced rights for fathers. I was disappointed when I read it - I thought it might have led to equal numbers of men and women taking time off but not really.

For those for whom £112 a week is not hugely different to their weekly wage maternity/and additional paternity pay when it comes in are helpful. If you look at what works in sectors where they really really want to keep good women they will offer 3 months at full pay if you agreed to go back because they want to keep those women. I saw in the press this week some merchant banks (who are hugely over stretched as it's been a bit of a boom time and short of staff) trying to get mothers who left back. So if you know as an employer women will stay in touch and return if you offer them good packages but in practice men don't leave to look after babies your market forces arugment would be to offer these packages to women and not men.

The new right from 1st July to flexible working for caring purposes including looking after elderly parents will be interesting to see too. I must get to bed.

Donk · 21/05/2007 23:47

I was told off soundly by my midwife when I went into labour at 36+2 She said 'don't you know that working this late in pregnancy is a risk factor for premature labour?'
So no, I don't think that you should work right to term unless you have a doctor's note. I was fit and healthy - and luckily early labour had no repercussions (except that I nearly spent Chritmas on the transition ward and had not got a thing for the baby. I was waiting until the end of term to do the shopping)