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Original poster

Formal Complaint of Racism- Help!

646 replies

OhBollocksFuck · 26/10/2016 11:14

I've NC as this is quite outing.

I work in the back office (10 people, all women, desk work) doing logistics for delivery drivers (27 people, mostly men, out and about all day).

We've had a bloke called Steve (not his real name) working as a delivery driver for years. Steve is black. Then another Steve came. So the original Steve became known as 'black Steve', which he's completely fine with, and new Steve became 'white Steve' which he's also fine with. We also have 'Short Trev' and 'Tall Trev' for two blokes called Trev. They're descriptions just to differentiate.

A new woman has started in the back office with us and asked me the other day what to do with an order which needed express sending. I told her to give it to 'black Steve' for various reasons. She's seemed quite nice, a little bit up-tight perhaps but that's usual when starting a new place.

Fast-forward to today and my manager has called me in the office to let me know that this new woman has put in a complaint about me using racist language. He's arranged a formal meeting with me and her for next Friday to talk through the complaint and see 'where we go' (his words). I'm in a union so I've got a union representative coming with me but I'm completely flawed by it.

I don't know what to do. I'm trying to remain calm and professional with this woman but I'm angry and upset. I don't want to mention anything to black Steve but, at the same time, it feels odd that there's all this going on with him being at the centre but him not really knowing. I also know that if I did mention it some of the drivers would take issue with her and I don't want them to get themselves into any trouble either.

I don't know what I'm asking really TBH. just some words of wisdom and advice from MNers would be breat!

OP posts:

Propertyquandry · 26/10/2016 16:47

And if you read my earlier posts you'll see that I said it was unacceptable for the OP to be using this term at work.

CrazyDuchess · 26/10/2016 16:48

Thanks Melibu for speaking on behalf of black people

I'd be offended if someone called me black crazy as a work place nickname ... and I am black

2014newme · 26/10/2016 16:48

But in the ops example they do refer to them directly as black Steve, gay Andy etc. Totally different from which Steve, the blonde etc
Reference to someone skin colour isn't racist. Consistently referring to them as black Steve is.

melibu84 · 26/10/2016 16:49

Superfly

Yes, seriously. Black is my skin colour, there's nothing for me to be upset about. They could just as easily say Mel with the glasses, but that's extra unnecessary words.

melibu84 · 26/10/2016 16:49

CrazyDuchess

Where the f did I say I was speaking for all black people? I was just giving my own opinion.

Christ on a bike!

CrazyDuchess · 26/10/2016 16:51

If you accept it then that's fine.... your only point on this thread is that you find it personally okay if someone referred to you as Black Mel .... well done.

The majority of people would find it offensive and that is why there are laws in place to protect us.

Propertyquandry · 26/10/2016 16:54

and I said this was wrong. My post that you referred to was me disagreeing with some other posters who suggested that making reference to skin colour is racist. And asking if I'd happily use the nasty term, paki. As if neutrally using the term black is in any way close to using the word, paki

2014newme · 26/10/2016 17:01

Mel, you wouldnt mind someone saying" which mel? Black mel" but if you were consistently referred to as " black mel" how would you feel? "black mel, can you make the 2pm meeting?" etc

2014newme · 26/10/2016 17:02

Property, would you refer to a colleague as Pakistani Steve then? Or Irish Steve or Filipino Steve or Arab steve?
You wouldn't! But you think it's not racist of the ops colleagues to use such terms.

SuperFlyHigh · 26/10/2016 17:05

Southall

sexual teasing is NOT permitted but this occurred in a sports centre swimming pool - I complained to management but they didn't appear to be taking this seriously. However there is not much I can do if management ignore their behaviour.

Southall - I agree with you to a certain degree that a Polish friend of mine has felt unsafe in certain areas near Brick Lane but generally (I worked there for 6 years) I have felt perfectly safe at all times. In fact vast areas of east London are white/Asian etc... and they all seem to rub along fine. I know this how?? brother and SIL and her SIL all live in Hackney - SIL's SIL lives near Roman Road Market.

KimmySchmidtsSmile · 26/10/2016 17:07

Mel B and Mel C weren't called Black Mel / White Mel, were they?
That said they were going by Scary, Sporty, Baby, Posh and Ginger.
None of which are protected characteristics.
Could be worse. At least we're not Noddy, only distinguishable by his car.
And his bell end
Looks at both statements and realises I am YOLLD* Kimmy.

*you only live last decade or even century

Southallgirl · 26/10/2016 17:13

That's interesting, SuperFly, because that sounds like they were doing taharrush on NY Eve in Tooting. It was also being played out in Cologne and several other cities across Europe, though that "teasing" as you call it was definitely not teasing.

BubbleGumBubble · 26/10/2016 17:15

OP calling someone black is fine. Calling someone white is also fine.
Calling somebody black Steve and white Steve is also fine as niether black or white Steve are being treated unequally due to their skin colour.
It is discriptive not racist.

The only person who has a right to be offended are the Steves. Nobody else can be offended as it is not directed at them and only used to differentiate between 2 people called Steve.

If both Steves are comfortable with this descriptor and they say so then nobody can state it is racisim.

SinisterBumFacedCat · 26/10/2016 17:17

If the entire office is using this name, then it the culture of the entire work force that needs to addressed. Singling out one member of staff for a disciplinary actually smacks of discrimination more than anything else.

ReggaeShark · 26/10/2016 17:18

No response from your union yet OP? When is your meeting?

Propertyquandry · 26/10/2016 17:19

Are you even reading my posts???
I would in context say Steve is the Pakistani one or the Irish one although neither of these are actually physical descriptors in the way black is so the context would be different. I would not say Irish Steve nor would I say Fat Steve or define him by anything else on a regular basis.

mouldycheesefan · 26/10/2016 17:20

Bubblegum, you are legally wrong. I can find something racist or homophobic even if I am not black or gay. I csn find it offensive and object to someone being called black Steve even though I am not black steve. A company that allows such "banter" is at risk of a claim regardless of whether that claim comes from gay Andy, black steve or someone who is neither black nor gay.

CrazyDuchess · 26/10/2016 17:20

I disagree bubblegum - I think I can be offended on someone elses behalf because it's a terrible way to refer to someone, even under the context of banter. If I was new in that office I would feel very uncomfortable.

Kokosjumping · 26/10/2016 17:22

Certainly not appropriate at work.

Though it has got me thinking how some people get really worried about the word black being offensive. For instance one of my mum's friends saying, about her son, "well I'm not being racist but he likes black girls"

BubbleGumBubble · 26/10/2016 17:28

Mouldy legally the OP is not being racist.
Yes you can be offended and complain but if the person it was directed at in this case black Steve is not complaining and there is no racial intent then legally you can go nowhere.
Unless black Steve in being treated unequally to white Steve and does not recieve the same opportunities as white Steve bacause he is black then it is not racisim.

2014newme · 26/10/2016 17:33

Unfortunately bubble you are incorrect.

BubbleGumBubble · 26/10/2016 17:33

You can feel uncomfortable Crazy thats ok but you cannot decide what black Steve should and should not be offended about. Only he can do that.
Given what the OP has said there is no racial intent. The words black and white are used to describe 2 people named Steve.

I see nobody throwing their arms in the air about white Steve. His skin colour is also used to describe him. By focusing on only black Steve you are treating both Steves unequally. That is completly against equality and diversity in the work place.

BubbleGumBubble · 26/10/2016 17:33

How am i incorrect 2014?

SuperFlyHigh · 26/10/2016 17:35

Southallgirl - this was not Tarrush or any other NY eve occasion.

It was in a swimming pool during an aqua aerobics session where part of the pool was roped off and where the men made comments and whooped and stopped what they were doing to gape at us. We got the 'big tits' comment from one of them. Then when I came out of the pool and went to shower off in an area by the pool 2 Asian men came and stood directly and very nearby me looking (you can tell when men gawp) at my swimming costume etc (which was modest). I didn't want to go into the sauna because of that.

When I posted about it here I was told it was Eve Shaming.

when I complained to the sports centre they took it on board but didn't really take it seriously. the female instructor taking the class was mortified and apologised on behalf of these men.

but that is derailing this thread.

CrazyDuchess · 26/10/2016 17:42

Bubblegum - nobody said anything about what Steve should do. Your statement was others couldn't be offended on other people's behalf. I disagree.

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