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Original poster

Formal Complaint of Racism- Help!

646 replies

OhBollocksFuck · 26/10/2016 11:14

I've NC as this is quite outing.

I work in the back office (10 people, all women, desk work) doing logistics for delivery drivers (27 people, mostly men, out and about all day).

We've had a bloke called Steve (not his real name) working as a delivery driver for years. Steve is black. Then another Steve came. So the original Steve became known as 'black Steve', which he's completely fine with, and new Steve became 'white Steve' which he's also fine with. We also have 'Short Trev' and 'Tall Trev' for two blokes called Trev. They're descriptions just to differentiate.

A new woman has started in the back office with us and asked me the other day what to do with an order which needed express sending. I told her to give it to 'black Steve' for various reasons. She's seemed quite nice, a little bit up-tight perhaps but that's usual when starting a new place.

Fast-forward to today and my manager has called me in the office to let me know that this new woman has put in a complaint about me using racist language. He's arranged a formal meeting with me and her for next Friday to talk through the complaint and see 'where we go' (his words). I'm in a union so I've got a union representative coming with me but I'm completely flawed by it.

I don't know what to do. I'm trying to remain calm and professional with this woman but I'm angry and upset. I don't want to mention anything to black Steve but, at the same time, it feels odd that there's all this going on with him being at the centre but him not really knowing. I also know that if I did mention it some of the drivers would take issue with her and I don't want them to get themselves into any trouble either.

I don't know what I'm asking really TBH. just some words of wisdom and advice from MNers would be breat!

OP posts:
Southallgirl · 26/10/2016 15:49

if you sat down in a disciplinary with me and said 'but everyone does it' I'd probably think about firing you for gross misconduct.

She would win at tribunal. You are expecting one person to change the culture of 9 other women plus the men by referring to that driver in a different way. It may make her unpopular with her co-workers, because of the criticism inherent in her referring to Steve differently.

CrazyDuchess · 26/10/2016 15:50

Southall girl... why do you keep going on about culture like it trumps laws, ethics and morals Hmm seriously confused.

Culture is not a defense...

Propertyquandry · 26/10/2016 15:51

It's not racist. Using the word black as s physical descriptor isn't racist. It doesn't imply that their skin colour us their only defining feature nor does it suggest anything either positive or negative about them as a person. It's simply a descriptor like blonde.

However, as race is a protected characteristic and some people get twitchy about the mere use of the word, it's very obviously inappropriate to use in the workplace.

The op or any number of her colleagues may well be racist for all I know. But simply using the word black, or white, without attaching anything to that descriptor, whilst totally inappropriate, still isn't in itself racist.

Propertyquandry · 26/10/2016 15:55

So op, go to the meeting. Explain you are aware that it's inappropriate but that it was suggested by Steve himself. Suggest the whole team be spoke to together. On the simple basis of using the word, I wouldn't conclude you were racist but it is, without doubt, inappropriate.

Propertyquandry · 26/10/2016 15:56

Apologies for appalling grammar

MidnightVelvetthe7th · 26/10/2016 15:56

Black Steve was the one who 'suggested' it. He was introduced to white Steve like 'Steve this is Steve' and black Steve put his hand out to shake and said 'black Steve, nice to meet you'. This was about six years ago.

Steve has not actually said he is OK with being called Steve by the way, it could have just been a gesture to make the new colleague feel welcome by using humour. Not intended to be his nickname for years.

CrazyDuchess · 26/10/2016 15:56

Yes as said many times the word black is not racist.... it the context in which it is used.

To nickname a colleague (whether he agrees or not) is just inappropriate. No one can say it's okay to call Steve that when there are other far more appropriate ways to differentiate between 2 people with the first forename.

MidnightVelvetthe7th · 26/10/2016 15:57

*Black Steve obs :)

Propertyquandry · 26/10/2016 15:58

I agree. It's wholly inappropriate in the work place.

Oblomov16 · 26/10/2016 15:58

"Everybody does it. But if you claimed this, I'd sack you for GM. "
Blimey.
Where's Flowery? As a pp suggested, ha ha. We need some common sense from a knowledgeable poster.

Best you don't work at my company. We all tease each other. Mercilessly. One persons half sister is half Spanish, we tell her that once brexit is sorted she'll be sacked, back to her old job of being a Spanish waitress.
We have thin Sam, tall mike, short mike. All sorts. We all like each other a lot. And tease endlessly.

Not very PC I guess.

CrazyDuchess · 26/10/2016 16:00

Lol I called for Flowery - have never spoken to her before but her advice on threads is no nonsense to to the point and devoid of personal opinion (in a super nice way!)

mouldycheesefan · 26/10/2016 16:01

Teasing for being tall or short isn't illegal, unless related to a disability etc. Teasing for being black or gay is.
It is irrelevant whether Steve objects to being called black Steve or white Steve. It is a,till racist. He could be perfectly happy with it, and you and your colleagues would still need to stop.

Southallgirl · 26/10/2016 16:02

OP - Let us know what happens this afernoon.

A point to note. HR should ask the newcomer: (i) when is the first occasion she heard a co-workers use the terms 'black' and 'white' when referring to the delivery drivers? (ii) when is the first time she heard OP use those terms? (iii) Is she equally offended by anyone attaching colours to names, or just OP?

Oblomov16 · 26/10/2016 16:03

Best you refer to him as
Steve L
And
Steve S
From now on. Perhaps.

Propertyquandry · 26/10/2016 16:05

Can I just clarify that by stating that 'black' isn't a racist term but that it is inappropriate in the workplace does not mean I think this is 'PC gone mad'. Nor do I think your colleague was wrong to question it with your manager.

drspouse · 26/10/2016 16:06

when is the first occasion she heard a co-workers use the terms 'black' and 'white' when referring to the delivery drivers?

But simply referring to them by a neutral physical characteristic is not racist. It's just descriptive.

So if the newcomer first heard someone describe one of two drivers as "black" in order to distinguish them, this is not racist.

In fact, if she sucked in her teeth in horror at simply hearing the B word in a descriptive context, this does rather mark her out as Princess and the Pea.

As we have established, it is not good practice to use physical characteristics as ongoing descriptors, but it is not intrinsically wrong to do this as a helpful distinguishing characteristic for a single descriptor.

If however she heard all the drivers calling them Black Steve and White Steve (which she must have, you'd have thought) but only complained about the OP, then her answer to question 3 is the relevant one here.

SuperFlyHigh · 26/10/2016 16:07

mouldy - I still see it as racist. like I said I work in a law firm with different nationalities but if we dared to differentiate by using the colour of their skin - at best we'd get a quiet word, at worst, HR would come into it.

Southall I agree that HR (not that there is one in this case) should ask the new comer whether she's offended but going forwards OP is correct, the culture needs to change. what if another newcomer starts and is either referred to as eg Gay Laura or by their race etc whether they agree to it or not - it could offend others.

Southallgirl · 26/10/2016 16:10

Nor do I think your colleague was wrong to question it with your manager.

I'm a little suspicious about this. After a few days on the job, the newcomer must hv heard others use the term, and yet she singled out OP, which conveys OP is the only co-worker using the descriptors. Why not complain about the use by the women in the office of 'black' and 'white' which you find offensive? That's the first irregularity I picked up on.

drspouse · 26/10/2016 16:11

Teasing for being tall or short isn't illegal, unless related to a disability etc. Teasing for being black or gay is.

Nobody's teasing them here, and I am actually with the PP who says "there's a lot of banter in a drivers' office" on this one.

It's not whether they are being teased or not that is important here*. It's whether these are OK as regular, possibly neutral, terms to refer to them.

If a very tall or red-haired or overweight worker really disliked being called Tall Trev or Red Fred or Large Larry then, despite none of those being protected characteristics, it would be harassment.

If they didn't mind, and it was occasional, then to my mind it would be OK.

*Of course, if they were being teased for being black, or gay, that would be very poor even if it wasn't how they were regularly referred to.

Propertyquandry · 26/10/2016 16:13

Racism is when you attach beliefs and/or characteristics or expectations either positive or negative to a person or persons purely on the basis of their race. Using the term black as a physical descriptor doesn't fall under racism. Is inappropriate without doubt. It can also lead to subtle or casual forms of racism. It can also make people feel uncomfortable whether they are directly affected or not. Thus in law it's a protected characteristic. But it is not in itself racist.

None of this makes the op's workplace 'banter' acceptable.

mouldycheesefan · 26/10/2016 16:14

You don't know that the lady didn't complain about the others too. The manager has no obligation to tell the op whether new lady complained about anyone else saying it. Or perhaps new lady didn't actually witness anyone else saying it. Coul be either.

I admire new lady for s,tending up to racist and inappropriate behaviour. If we all did it the world would be a better place.

CrazyDuchess · 26/10/2016 16:16

Okay if we go with "its just banter" then unfortunately that is the risk you take when engaging in it.. some people may not agree or enjoy it....

I don't think the complainant was being precious or sensitive, she simply objected to a term that maybe more than half the posters here too would complain about.

mouldycheesefan · 26/10/2016 16:16

Property you are wrong.
"Pass the black pen" is fine
"Black Steve" is not fine. Nor is gay steve, paki Steve, wheelchair Steve, spastic Steve, paddy Steve, spic Steve,etc

Original poster
OhBollocksFuck · 26/10/2016 16:22

Can only post quickly.

Steve's just out of a meeting where he was asked if he feels he's experienced racism at work. He was told there's been a complaint of racism and he's the focus (not the one doing the racist stuff, the one who the racist stuff's about IYSWIM) but wasn't told any more details about the complaint.

OP posts:
Oblomov16 · 26/10/2016 16:22

Op is being scapegoated here. Hopefully HR will ask manager not to say it, himself included, and ask manager to tell all staff that this is unacceptable.