Formal Complaint of Racism- Help!

[OhBollocksFuck]

I've NC as this is quite outing.

I work in the back office (10 people, all women, desk work) doing logistics for delivery drivers (27 people, mostly men, out and about all day).

We've had a bloke called Steve (not his real name) working as a delivery driver for years. Steve is black. Then another Steve came. So the original Steve became known as 'black Steve', which he's completely fine with, and new Steve became 'white Steve' which he's also fine with. We also have 'Short Trev' and 'Tall Trev' for two blokes called Trev. They're descriptions just to differentiate.

A new woman has started in the back office with us and asked me the other day what to do with an order which needed express sending. I told her to give it to 'black Steve' for various reasons. She's seemed quite nice, a little bit up-tight perhaps but that's usual when starting a new place.

Fast-forward to today and my manager has called me in the office to let me know that this new woman has put in a complaint about me using racist language. He's arranged a formal meeting with me and her for next Friday to talk through the complaint and see 'where we go' (his words). I'm in a union so I've got a union representative coming with me but I'm completely flawed by it.

I don't know what to do. I'm trying to remain calm and professional with this woman but I'm angry and upset. I don't want to mention anything to black Steve but, at the same time, it feels odd that there's all this going on with him being at the centre but him not really knowing. I also know that if I did mention it some of the drivers would take issue with her and I don't want them to get themselves into any trouble either.

I don't know what I'm asking really TBH. just some words of wisdom and advice from MNers would be breat!

But it was not dividing anyone by race .......before this complaint.
White Steve and black Steve where happy for their skin colour to be used as a discriptor. This didnt mean both Steves were treated differently or 1 Steve had better opportunities than the other Steve.

However now black Steve is being treated differently. His race is now a negative due to the complaint. His oppinions are not taken in to account nor are his feelings.

He is now being treated unequally to white Steve. That unequality is race related which is a protected charicteristic.

Going on what was in the original OP - someone new in the office was told to give something to 'black Steve'. She doesn't know the background and I'd make a complaint if I heard someone referred to in that way.

She heard a racist comment - without the history and 'black Steves' opinion. She doesn't know whether 'black Steve' introduces him like that because he's had to accept racism for years to keep his job or not.

So she made a complaint, HR have got involved and people need to be more aware of how they refer to other people. Job done I think.

She heard a racist comment

Is the word black racist?
Wouldn'y you just say "erm why do you call him that?"

So she made a complaint, HR have got involved and people need to be more aware of how they refer to other people. Job done I think.

Really?? You think this has turned out well?

We now have a Steve who did not feel racislly abused, segregated or discriminated against before now feeling segregated, singled out and discriminated against let alone angry all because of his race. Yeah what a result

Thisjust That is not the first thing a new person does. You ask your co-workers, or ask OP immediately, why that Steve is referred to in that way? It is not normal behaviour to stay schtum and then go and complain about a co-worker.

If white Steve has not been interviewed, then the employer has (without thinking) conveyed that being black is an issue. No critical thinking has been applied.

If I entered a workplace and heard someone referred to as 'black Steve' with no other context (OP said she didn't think the new worker had heard someone else refer to him as that) then of course I'd think that was racist. I'd think it was offensive if I heard 'gay Steve' or 'muslim Steve' It's using a persons race/sexuality/religion as their defining characteristic. And those characteristics are protected.

I have no idea what environments people work in where that would be acceptable? I understand the OP reporting the history and what Steve thinks etc but the new worker didn't know that so was right to report it. If she'd have asked 'why did you call him that?' then OP would have said 'oh we all call him that, he doesn't mind'. That wouldn't be good enough. The worker doesn't know if he minds or not or if he says he doesn't mind because he needs a job and is just accepting it as the way things are for an easy life.

There is sexism, racism, homophobia and transphobia accepted in workplaces all over the place because it's 'okay, we're all in on it' or 'just the way it's always been' 'just banter, we all do it'. Sometimes it's relatively benign and sometimes it isn't. But it isn't acceptable in a professional environment.

I'm not going to demonise someone for pointing it out. And now people will be more aware of how they refer to others. That is a good thing. If 'black Steve' is pissed off then fair enough, he can be but it isn't just about him or the OP or the other workers. It's about a wider picture and the possible next Steve that starts work and feels he has to adopt Asian/Polish/gay/fat/short/tall as a descriptor because there's already a white and black Steve. Or there's already a Paul who is White British and An Afro-Carribean Paul gets a job and it's assumed they'll be white Paul and Black Paul because thats a way to differentiate and white Steve and black Steve and the rest of the team are fine with using race to refer to them.

It's really bloody easy to say Steve P or B or S or whatever their surnames begin with.

The Steves didn't mind. It's a physical characteristic, it was banter and hurt nobody. I can't think of the problem? Why do people have such an issue? Maybe not appropriate if in front of customers or external people but in a team who works back office, why not? People are so pc now days

However apparently benign and neutral, these are nicknames based on race. As such, they very likely do constitute harrassment under the EA:

Harassment is unwanted behaviour which you find offensive or which makes you feel intimidated or humiliated. It can happen on its own or alongside other forms of discrimination.

You don’t need to have previously objected to something for it to be unwanted

The Equality Act says it’s harassment where the behaviour is meant to or has the effect of either:

- violating your dignity, or
- creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment.

This means it’s harassment even if the person harassing you didn’t mean to offend or intimidate you, as long as the harassment has one of the above effects.

The harassment may be directed at you, but it can also be directed at someone else or even at no-one in particular. It may have to do with your or someone else’s protected characteristic. It may not have anything to do with you but you still find it offensive.

As long as it’s related to a protected characteristic, it can be harassment.

So it doesn't matter if either or both Steves are happy with their nicknames, the new colleague is still within her rights to raise a complaint.

It could be that the new colleague tried to raise it informally and the boss panicked because the word 'racism' was used and escalated it to a formal grievance. It could be that the new colleague tried to raise it in a general way but was asked to give examples and OP was the first example that came to her.

Or she could have gone in all guns blazing and straight away raised a formal grievance against the OP.

They're using nicknames much more loudly and regularly this AM just to be awkward.

I think you and your colleagues, including Steve, need to tread carefully here. If new colleague is made to feel uncomfortable because she has raised a complaint she could claim victimisation. If she is made to feel so uncomfortable she leaves, she could claim constructive dismissal even though she has only just started working there. If there is discrimination you don't have to have been working somewhere for 2 years to have the right to claim unfair dismissal. Your manager will probably want to make very sure his arse is covered.

this
It's using a persons race/sexuality/religion as their defining characteristic. And those characteristics are protected.
sigh
we all by now should know what protected characteristics are
the adjective black and white are used as descriptions not as opportunities to discriminate. There is a difference but so many of you do not seem to appreciate that.
So all of you up in arms about the use of an adjective as a so-callled defining characteristic (whatever that means) should be similarly incensed over 'white Steve' - no?
I am out of this thread now as I feel there is no future in continually pointing out that there is NO discrimination in this case.

Thisjustinno

Black Steve introduced himself as black Steve. He made it clear he was happy to be called this.
The nickname was not just given to him so Paul coming in to the work place would not just be called black Paul by staff. Paul could introoduce himself as fat Paul if he likes its up to him.

The key to equality is not treating everybody the same which is what you are advocating. It is using common sense.

You treat them as equals so if fat Trev wants to be called fat Trev and thats ok then black Steve should be allowed to call himself black Steve. If you say no to him then you are not treating Steve equally to Trev because Steve is black.

The problem only comes IF staff assume Paul would be ok with being called black Paul just because black Steve is ok with it.
That has not happened here.
As i said earlier being black does not mean you have a hive mind yet poor Steve is being treated like a race and not like a person.

I am out of this thread now as I feel there is no future in continually pointing out that there is NO discrimination in this case.

I feel the same.

Everyone is saying Steve has been a victim of a crime under the equality act when in fact up until they (his company) started treating black Steve differently to white Steve he was treated equally and with diversity. Now though poor Steve has been singled out and had racial complsints made in his name.

This isn't AIBU, though, Bubble, it's Employment issues. It doesn't matter how reasonable or unreasonable anybody here thinks OP / Steve / colleagues / management have been. OP needs to know where she stands.

With that in mind, I made a mistake in my above post. New colleague could not claim unfair dismissal if she was made to feel so uncomfortable she left, she would need to be there for 2 years to do that. She could still claim victimisation though and could take the employer to ET on discrimination grounds. Sorry for the confusion.

Black Steve may have been taught by people like you and your colleagues to take racism in the chin. It doesn't mean he is ok with it.

Really!! Do you know how offensive that is?
You assume because Steve is black he could not possibly know his own mind

Steve has the perfect chance to complain and say actually I dont like it.
He has not. He has expressed anger and refused to accept an apology.
You are assuming because Steve is black he does not have the right to be called an inoffensive nickname that he himself chose.
You are not treating Steve as an equal because you have not said the same about white Steve. You are discriminating against him because he is black.

This isn't AIBU, though, Bubble

Whete have is said YABU?

So it doesn't matter if either or both Steves are happy with their nicknames, the new colleague is still within her rights to raise a complaint.

Yes a complaint of harrasment but not a complaint of racisim.

Harassment is a form of discrimination under the Equality Act 2010.

Harassment can be general or racist, sexist, whatever. If it involves a protected characteristic it falls under the equality act.

Cross post with Plenty!

Handsome Paul and....Paul
That's awful. You might as well have Fugly Paul or Average Paul or We'reIndifferentToPaul on a t shirt. Poor bugger.
How are you OP? Has everyone been playing up even more today with the shouting nicknames as loud as we can? Will Steve gwet it in the neck for telling the other drivers? How is your colleague reacting?

Harassment is a form of discrimination under the Equality Act 2010.

I know.

Harassment can be general or racist, sexist, whatever. If it involves a protected characteristic it falls under the equality act.

But there was no act of racism. The word black is not racist. Niether Steve was treated unequally or discriminated against because the word black/white is used as their chosen nickname. Therefore no act of racisim was committed.

New worker could complain that it was harrassment because the word black makes her feel uncomfortable but there is nothing to support a crime of racisim.

^ forget this, I thought your update was yesterday, it was only this morning.
So your nickname is now Prim OFB.

Bubbles you seem more invested in this thread than op and determined to shut everyone down who doesn't agree with you.

Before your boss has this conversation with the 2 of you, the first thing that needs to happen is for him to talk to black Steve and ask HIM whether he minds being called that - or if he actually likes it or is totally cool with it. Supposing it was Welsh Steve and Geordie Steve - would that be unacceptable? Black Steve is only unacceptable if: (1) Steve himself doesn't like it or (2) Black is regarded as a derogatory term when applied to a human being, and clearly it is not.

We have thankfully moved on from the days when black was a racist term. It has taken a long while to creep to this point.

Why this new woman did not just say to you that she was shocked by this so that you could say "It's fine black Steve does not mind - he likes it. We all call him that" I do not know.

I can remember being pulled up over calling one of my patients a dwarf. I told the patient this and he laughed like a drain! "I was born a dwarf and I will die a dwarf and that is fine by me! - I am proud to be a dwarf!" said he.

The decision to be offended by this or not is black Steve's and black Steve's alone. If he had not liked it he was free to make his own complaint - he has not done that.

Bubbles you seem more invested in this thread than op confused and determined to shut everyone down who doesn't agree with you.

So because i feel strongly about something and i am debating it i am over invested confused and trying to shut people down.......ok then

Is that not what you are trying to do by telling me i am over invested? You are trying to shut me up and get me to leave the thread by using words like that and also telling me I am confused. Why because i disagree with you? Bad form vixx to accuse sombody of something you yourself have just done.

I have agreed to disagree with at least 2 posters that dont share my view. I have not attempted to shame them in to leaving the thread, which is exactly what you have just done to me.

Fine have it your way i will no longer post but that is mot because i agree with you. It is because you have shamed me in to doing so.

Bubble, you said that it wasn't against the law to put up a "girly calendar". You are wrong. It is illegal to cause an atmosphere which is intimidating, hostile or humiliating to women. The company could be found liable by a court if they allowed it. It is sexual harassment. So I thought you were maybe a bit confused about the difference between racial discrimination and racial harassment.

I think this is a very tricky area and although I think it does not constitute racist harassment directly as it is merely used as a description, using people's race in this way could potentially be construed as creating a hostile environment which is racist harassment. I can see why a company would err on the side of legal caution, especially with limited HR advice. I agree that White Steve should also be spoken to if Black Steve is.

Bubble don't be so dramatic please.
I'm just wondering why as I assume (from your posts) a white woman you are so invested in telling people that something isn't offensive?