Help: FT lawyer having a horrible time (long...)

[lemur]

All advice on how to sort my working world out would be gratefully received... here is the thing:

I have a 9.5 month DD, in FT nursery care, a job in the City as a FT lawyer in private practice and two male partner bosses who just don't seem to realise the pressure that the above combination creates. It is Saturday night and I have just had huge row with monster of boss because I have to be in meetings tomorrow (Sunday, yes, I know it is the weekend) and I physically cannot be there as have to look after DD. DP cannot look after DD as he has football match to play(and does not want to be dictated to by my bosses) I have no handy relatives nearby who can look after DD and cannot leave DD with a friend as the meeting could go on indefinitely (i.e until Monday...).

And why am I even worrying about that level of detail, when the point is that the monster boss has, beyond saying "well you are the breadwinner so DP should sacrifice what he is doing" is also making me contact all my childless colleagues in a grovelling fashion to ask them to go to the meetings tomorrow, to punish me.

I am a lawyer and I know that somewhere in all of the S**T that is currently part of my working world, there is something breaching some of my employment rights, but I am not an employment lawyer. DP is away all next weekend and I am supposed to be working then too. I feel like just not bothering to go into work ever again.

DD had Chicken Pox just before Christmas, I had to be home with her for 7 working days and the matter ended up being referred to HR and me having to take unpaid leave because I came into work one day while DP looked after DD and so lost my right to any more emergency leave for the rest of the time DD was contagious (as was not an emergency as I knew she had CP!!!). This gives you a flavour of the way it works at the firm I work at.

I have only been back at work since the end of September 2006 and the gruelling routine of half an hour each way walk to nursery and then to work plus the working on work from 8pm until midnight plus the manipulative bosses (who had/have wives at home to look after kids) being totally unreasonable plus the fact my mum died a month before DD was born and I miss her all the time = I am somewhat losing the plot. That is a bit of an understatement.

So I guess the question is, do I just accept that you cannot do it all and find new, normal, job doing something that will never mean I have to work after 5.30 or weekends, or try and win against forces of chauvinism in the City of chauvinists?

Ideas welcome. Thank you.

As a headhunter I see a lot of people unhappy with their job. The City with such a large % of bonus and promotion based upon the view of your boss, which can be highly subjective and quite irrational.
Lawyers are offered the carrot of partnership, but typically that not only requires your boss to "allow" you to be made up, it requires that he actively fights for you.
If that's gone, you need to get out if you want a long term career.
However, as a pimp I have to warn you that slagging off your old boss is always a bad move.
Lemur has spoken frankly about the views she has of her bosses position, but that is not the way to spin it.

In extreme cases I counsel people to take a day or two off before they go for interview just to get themselves back into the right state of mind.

Lemur, just wanted to add a suggestion about weekend/emergency childcare - have you considered asking any of the staff at the nursery if they would be interested in occasional babysitting? They often are as they are not generally well-paid in their day job and the added bonus is that your dd would already be familiar with them.

I would also strongly advise you to try to sort out your dd's sleeping - it is much easier to deal with everything if you get enough sleep. I went back to work when my dd was 6 months old and she did not stop BFing and start sleeping through until she was 10 months old - don't know how I managed to survive and my job was less demanding than yours.... I don't know how long you plan to Bf for but it might be worth considering if BFing and lack of sleep is adding to your tiredness/stress whether it might be better for your dd to stop if it helped her have a mummy who was less stressed and happier? (Don't want to spark a debate about extended BFing PLEASE)

Also would say that it is very possible to work full-time and have children but it is virtually impossible to have a social life as well, ime - could never have managed a whole morning or afternoon by myself (but great for you if you can ).

And sorry to hear about your mother - a friend of mine lost her father when she was pregnant with her ds and I know how badly it affected her so my heart goes out to you.

I'm not a lawyer, but agree with everyone that you need a lovely, flexible nanny, a bit more support at home maybe and definitely a new job. Good luck.

Very late input from an employment lawyer who has struggled to find a work / life balance, which probably repeats what others have said:
taking on bosses over perceived sex discrimination issues (if those are at work here), particularly through litigation, will eat up your life when your child is small. Some types of legal work the way these things are set up at the moment are simply incompatible with the kind of family life I and it seems you want. You obviously have lots to offer and can find a job which is more compatible with having a nice life. It is as someone has said desperately difficult to see this when you are immersed in a world like the City! Good luck

When my DH was considering his options - and partnership was one of them - the partner he worked for said to him "Don't stay if you don't enjoy the job - its a hard and difficult job and its only worth doing if you enjoy it". And it really was very good advice, because that was the difference between him and me - he never really enjoyed his job, even when it was going well, whereas I genuinely enjoy mine quite a large proportion of the time.

I would echo what other people have said that if you do not see partnership at the end of it - even if that end is a long way off - and you are routinely having to do crap hours, then personally I would not have stuck it. But I do think you have to be honest with yourself about the hours - they are a trade off for the pay, which is by almost any standards very high and you don't get paid this for working 9-5pm. I know that doesn't help when you are having a crap time and I always whinge about it myself, but my mother worked as a teacher in the state sytem for 30 plus years and my FIL as a doctor in the NHS and when I compare that to what newly qualifieds earn when they don't actually know anything and are getting £60k+, I do tend to get a bit hard-hearted.

To be honest, my best advice to you would be to get your DC sleeping through the night, because it honestly all goes into much better perspective when they do (believe me I know this from very bitter experience of working crap hours with a cranky baby). Plus childcare with some flexibility built in would, I think, help you a lot.

Hmm, that message would have made more sense with more punctuation in it!

Mine, I mean!

Agree Dominconner - it is never good to slag off your boss. I assume Lemur is only doing it here in secret, as it were

You've all said so many interesting things. Anchovy, yes, that was what I was trying to say. I sit here aged 45 and I could do all kinds of things, sell up, downsize, travel etc but the work itself is so just so interesting I want to do the work (not every day but usually). And there was my father until last year, age 77 working full time as a psychiatrist because he loved the human mind and my ex husband's father at 82 is still working a few days a week at the company he founded because he loves engineering. If you can get work you like that's great and it doesn't have to be medicine, law, engineering. Some people are equally as happy landscape gardening or looking after their own gorgeous 4 under 10s at home. Some other people again live their lives permanently unhappy - they're just made like that but that's a different issue.

Actually another point coming out of that is that in most jobs it takes a few years of experience before you're confident in what you're doing, before you have power, before you enjoy it, before you have reputation, control and I think sometimes it's worth continuing just for another year or two to be sure you don't like it. My suggestion is have a second child before the age gap is too big.

Too many people give up work to run the French vineyard or pub and find the grass wasn't greener at all except now as well as hating the work they have no money either. But also agree with the comment don't wait 7 years before changing if something needs changing.

Obviously DC is right about criticism of bosses. Even my daughters know potential employers might check their Facebook pages and looking on line for evidence even in anonymous blogs is well known/done.

Other interesting point is one PrincessPH said which is one which I think is very difficult indeed. Should childless colleagues bear burdens through our choice to breed? (Indeed should clients suffer for it?) We choose to have children. We may do it for the good of the human race, because contraception failed or because we adore babies (for me it's the latter, the twins were the most expensive indulgence I could have had, more expensive over the next 20 years than stopping at 3 children and buying a yacht or whatever, plus biological urge). Others choose not to because they hate children or they can't have them or can't find a husband but would love to be in our position as a mother.

My view which I suppose most mumsnetters will criticise me for, is that if we choose to house 20 homeless dogs, keep horses that need attention, have babies, pursue a hobby which means leaving work at 6pm every day or whatever those are choices and a childless colleague is as entitled to a weekend as one with children. At times I end up feeling sorry for those without children who it is assumed can't have their time off at Christmas so easily etc. I would say your private life is just that certainly in this kind of job and the better paid City jobs. It's that pact - you know the score and you do it or leave. Obviously with some latitude if there are deaths etc, parents have to find care of children that enables them to work. Just like those with new baby puppies at home or those with a parent with dementia which I have, need to fix the care. I have always thought it very unfair on employers that they have these issues of children foisted on them.

Sometimes I've sat here working late and smiled thinking I've avoided an evening tidying up toys and holding a screaming baby, aren't I lucky instead to be grappling with this interesting problem.

xenia - what do you do for a living>

bet you wont tell us xenia.....

Isn't Xenia also a lawyer? I have to confess that personally I find the problems have become repetitive and (possible heresy here) do not think that the law is necessarily that interesting or indeed intellectually demanding...

we'll see.... if she tells us....
spot on re law kp.... shame it took me so long to realise it (i am a lawyer)

but we are all different and if some people love it so much they want to do it at all hours, fair enough. I think OP not necessarily one of them.

It all boils down to work/life balance. DO you have it? It seems not!!

Do you find your job interesting?

Are you so bogged down by it all you can't view the situation or the job objectively?

Can you afford to take a pay cut?

Would you apply for Part Time working?

Flexible working legislation - information and more information here) Is stress affecting your health, relationship,libido or general happiness? Is your child affected by your work? How unhappy are you on a scale of 10? Do you get enough exercise (thinking of your health here? If I were you and if I could afford it I would: -get a nanny -hire an employment lawyer -get a life coach -check out cruse (grief counseling ink{http://www.crusebereavementcare.org.uk/here )

Once I was mentally stronger I would take the fu*kers for every penny they had. Alternatively I would look for another less well paid job that I enjoyed more.

When I am stronger I will follow my own advice. I have had three bereavements in three years and I don't have a work/life balance.

As Freckle and another MN said, lemur has right to request flexible working patterns. the firm does not have to want to get rid of her for it to be an issue - the firm are clearly making it very difficult for her and are breaking the law. Yes, her husband has not been helpful and he should've perhaps considered cancelling his football match, but lemur has the right to state to her employer that finding childcare for indefinite periods of time over a weekend is difficult or impossible (I am meant to work shifts and evenings and told my employer, as a single parent, that I was unable to find evening childcare which I wasn't and my role was adapted to to do daytime work - thats what family friendly working is about). if she chose to leave, it would be constructive dismissal as she would have no option but to leave and she would have a case for sex discrimination. if the firm said she could do video conferencing from home to be in on the important meeting, then thats the firm trying to compromise, but the firm are doing nothing to compromise at all. log everything your bosses say & do - preferably get evidence in writing - and get advice from a specialist (I mean a really good lawyer - you must know some as a lawyer yourself) in employment law or try ACAS - they're fantastic

It all boils down to work/life balance. DO you have it? It seems not!!

Do you find your job interesting?

Are you so bogged down by it all you can't view the situation or the job objectively?

Can you afford to take a pay cut?

Would you apply for Part Time working?

Flexible working legislation - information and more information here .

Is stress affecting your health, relationship,libido or general happiness?

Is your child affected by your work?

How unhappy are you on a scale of 10?

Do you get enough exercise (thinking of your health here?

If I were you and if I could afford it I would:

-get a nanny
-hire an employment lawyer
-get a life coach
-check out cruse (grief counseling here )

Once I was mentally stronger I would take the fu*kers for every penny they had. Alternatively I would look for another less well paid job that I enjoyed more.

When I am stronger I will follow my own advice. I have had three bereavements in three years and I don't have a work/life balance.

and BTW, question xenia why did you bother having children if you stick them with a nanny 24/7??? Lemur sounds like she actually wants to be with her children

Interesting case here Policewoman wins £93000 over flexible working request refusal

Drosophila - good case. There is always the debate about whether women can have it all but at the end of the day it is mainly women that end up being the primary caregivers and mainly women who end up having a break in their careers or women who end up having to take lower paid dumbed down jobs just so that they can see their children from time to time. Therefore the "system" as in employers after all these many many many years of discrimination in the workplace have a moral (and legal) responsiblity to ensure that women can have still children and work too, but that such work will be sympathetic to the needs of the children.

and sorry but while I'm on my mini rant, - one MNetter comment about why should childless people have to suffer shows a complete non understanding of ethical and moral responsibility for society - we all in one way or another or some in many ways support others through NI, taxes etc - the unemployed, the disabled, the elderly, those who are too ill to pay, carers - are we to stop having any responsibility for anyone else? Why should women suffer just because of their biology? In the time of a demographic crisis, if women suddenly chose to stop having children, that would be the end. And as a last comment, the rights that lemur is entitled to are the same for a carer who is looking after a child or adult with a chronic health problem so its not just about women with children.+

Just as much a right for a man who is a father at her firm to be home with his babies as a mother though surely? And someone who needs to be with an elderly relative. I don't see why we should burden the childless. I feel very strongly about it. Women can control their biology. They can decide whether or not to have children. They can also return to work I think in law after 2 weeks in most jobs, 4 or 6 for factory work so to say this is something to do with biology is wrong.

I also very strongly disagree with you that she has some sort of case. Employers have to follow procedures if a flexible working request is made. There is no right to get flexible working and some jobs it would be ridiculous to suggest there be. If you do deals and you have to work sometimes 24 hours at a stretch that's what the work is like. You can't just say I have to go and do X, my knitting class or sit with the child because I chose not to hire child care that means I can do this job.

Also untrue I have my children over 22 years in child care 24/7. I enjoy my work and at times have worked very long hours happily but I have still spent a lot of time with them as most parents manage even when they both work full time.

Xenia in law you have a right to request a flexible working pattern and in law your employer have a duty to consider it taking account of business needs and if they turn it down they have to document it. There is a formal process to go through.

A tribunal will decide if the refusal is reasonable and will take account of things like-

Did they consider job sharing?
Were alternate work patters truly considered?

As you can imagine there are a host of things a tribunal will consider.

agreed - a flexible working application is relevant to all jobs - a solicitor in a firm will be treated like every other job. I agree that this would not be the same for say a partner in such a firm but here Lemur is just another employee and can apply and will need consideration.

But it is not a right to work flexibly. There are many jobs where it is perfectly lawful to say this job cannot be done flexibly. I think it's fine that employers are made to think about it however. But they certainly aren't breaking the law if they say no.

"What is a business ground?

An application can be refused only where there is a clear business reason. The business ground(s) for refusing an application must be from one of those listed below.
Business grounds for refusing a request

Burden of additional costs.
*
Detrimental effect on ability to meet customer demand.
*
Inability to reorganise work among existing staff.
*
Inability to recruit additional staff.
*
Detrimental impact on quality.
*
Detrimental impact on performance.
*
Insufficiency of work during the periods the employee proposes to work.
*
Planned structural changes."