Help - any City lawyers thinking of not going back to work?

[muffinchops]

I am coming to the end of my maternity leave and am a senior litigation assistant with a large City firm. My dh is a corporate lawyer with another City firm and will be going for partnership over the next year and so, effectively will not be around.

I enjoy my job but since I had my ds who is now 8 months, I am an emotional wreck about leaving him. My firm is not flexible-worker friendly and, realistically, I cannot see how I could fulfill my role on a part time basis. I already feel bad for taking my full year's entitlement.

If I don't go back, I will have to carve out a new role somehow as I need to do something for me having worked so long and hard to get where I am today.

There's certainly an argument for trying going back and see how it pans out. Am going mad though with indecision and am adept at convincing myself one way and then the other (handy legal skill!!)

Am not a sahm type, but adore spending time with my ds and would just need to think of other things I could do.

Am lining up a meeting with my boss, hopefully this week in order to stop myself procrastinating further and in an attempt to move forward and make a decision.

Would love to hear from any like-minded bods who know the score re life in a City law firm.

MrsW, inspired by your message as usual.

I do agree that anticipating constraints is automatically going to be defeatist. But working out even what one wants (let alone how to put it into practice) is so difficult in a vacuum - someone good at blue sky thinking, and at being able to trust their own convictions might manage it, but personally I've never been confident about those and imagine I'm not alone. It so happens I've now got a flexible working deal which was (when it began) ground-breaking for my firm, but in setting it up I would so have liked even anecdotal help from people looking at the same sort of decisions in the same sort of context. I should also say that I have quite consciously gone down this route not just for the sake of me and my family but also so that my younger colleagues can see it can be done [wanted to put that in italics].

So going back to the idea of a "mentoring circle", how about I rely on this site's anonymity and say what my deal is and how I got it?

1. My specialism is highly technical and (probably for that reason) not a very popular area to choose => there's a demand for me.

2. Being highly technical, it's more important to get the deal exactly right than meet (eg) an acquisition-type timetable => bit of flexibility already.

3. Probably consequential on the technicality issue, my clients tend to be of the non-macho sort who are generally sympathetic to non-office life.

4. I was already 4? 5? years PQE (gets confused by maternity breaks) all at this firm when I asked for the deal: they know me and I know them => cushion of established goodwill and trust.

5. I was OK to negotiate a bit: I asked for 8-day fortnights (ie, M-Th one week, T-F the next); they said no, how about you do the "net annual equivalent" of a 4-day week, so an 80% year - 4 wks ordinary paid holiday, 10 weeks unpaid leave, you take it between deals. Actually that's ended up far too much time off - I really do about 87% I guess, based really on not being there over the summer. Obviously I get paid to the extent I work over the part-time proportion.

6. The firm already has a policy of sabbaticals for partners, so there's recognition that 6-week absences do not equal client meltdown => analogy to make use of.

I'm sure there's yet more I can say, but this is already far too long. I hope it helps someone!!

Issymum, crossed with you, not ignoring.

Hi...still here! Have been absorbing the fascinating posts. Tarteqnin has a valid point, although I would take it one step further and suggest we pool our resources and wisdom and take over the world.

Have also been trying to pin down my elusive boss for THE meeting (cue scary music...Jaws?...Psycho?)which looks like it won't happen until the first week in June I think he senses that a conversation other than, 'I will sell my soul and give over all my worldly possessions to the firm' is wanted and is not comfortable with that. Am v hacked off as you wouldn't fob a client off like this and this sort of approach will make me harden my line (which is a good thing).

A meet-up is a wonderful idea. People will be knocked out at the chosen location from the sheer force of the fumes of oestrogen! Will see if I can arrange to come without babychops. I'll be the one clutching a large G&T especially if I the meeting looming that week.

Issymum - your point about navel gazing is very well made. My DH who works in the real world ie industry often tells me to get real when I talk about issues at work.

A meet up would be great, I'm not in London and am on holiday 1 June (half term) but would be up for it another day (I can usually engineer a London meeting).

Re Mrs Wobble's points - I agree that you need to work out what you want and go for it but if you are in a male dominated traditional environment with few role models it is difficult, particuarly if you've not made it to the heady heights of partner. I was lucky in my group - we had a very supportive (male) group partner and at one time had three part time women partners and several managers. And in general the culture was different to other similar organisations with a heavy US influence. But I know of other parts of the organisation where people (including partners) have tried it and given up due to their colleagues (rather than clients) refusing to cooperate.

I'm new to MN but this thread was an eye-opener! I'm a partner in a major city law firm (as we like to say!), doing M&A and corporate work. I'm just back from second maternity leave in a relatively short time (I only have time for sex when there is a down turn in M&A activity). I detect a certain degree of frostiness from some of my (mostly male)colleagues for my repeated offences on the fertility front. But others also have small children, also have working spouses and are also up for great chunks of the night with teething, chicken pox, bed wetting and general requests for water, cuddles and to sing the theme tune from Balamory.

I probably identify most with Mrs Wobble, but thats because I have the good fortune to have made partner before starting childbearing - although I had to work like a dog in the 2 years up to it and I doubt I could have done that while pregnant. There's no doubt that its easier when you can afford a (very) full time nanny and a fairly full time cleaner, but no arrangements are bullet-proof.(My mother does not live close enough to give any childcare cover, for example, and isn't the type to drop everything and come down if my nanny was off sick for a couple of days). Probably the most useful thing I have is a very committed husband who also works full time but recognises that childcare and domestic work are as much his responsibility as mine. Whats clear is that you just have to do what is best for you in the circumstances that apply to you and that those will be different for everyone and that they will constantly change: its the last bit thats the really difficult bit and that keeps us constantly on our toes. I think its important not to make decisions that commit you to a course of action that doesn't have sufficient flexibility for changed circumstances 12 months down the line.

On a practical level I never give excuses at work that relate to the children. I prefer to say that I was late in because I had to drop the car off at the garage than I was late because 2.6 year old missed the toilet AGAIN. I always find that men respect a woman who looks after her car much more than one who regularly mops up weewee.

ha ha lol, Anchovy!!

Got told on Wednesday 'that it is a real inconveniance having you with your flexible working hours in my department'. Also got told, as I was looking at another area of our firm that I was interested in doing some work for in the two days I am not here was told ' I would never sanction that, as its all right for you to have 2 days off (not my words!) a week to look after your children, but if you are going to work, then you should be here!'. Feeling very uncharmed by the whole thing. So although, I would say that you should push ahead, Muffinchops, and try to get your flexible arrangement in place, be aware that your boss might change over the years and some are more accepting than others. They do honour your arrangements, but with a lack of good grace. This can seriously dent promotion, bonus etc prospects!!! Would love to meet up but am not a lawyer (although the documents in my office might kid you that I am!) and am on holiday on 1st June.

FWIW I think working mums who refuse to acknowledge the issues associated with child care at work - ie blame lateness on traffic/ car in garage actually hamper rather than progress the position of working mums.

Surely we need to get our roles as working mums (parents) not only recognised but accepted and supported in the work place. Brushing these sorts of aspects under the carpet does just the opposite.

In my experience if a man comes in saying he is late because he took his daughter to school he gets a pat on the back !

Hey guys after a long silence, much gnashing of teeth, evenings spent sobbing into my dinner and being on the point of checking myself in somewhere for a personality transplant, I can finally announce that I am not returning to my law firm.

I met with the head of my group last week having wandered around like a zombie for most of the week in decision purgatory. Stepping back into the office and seeing colleagues again almost made me decide to give it a go, but I reminded myself that there were many reasons I had arrived at my decision.

The meeting was interesting in that my boss stated that regardless of the firm's policy, he did not believe in flexible working and that things were only going to get harder and not easier; if I made partner eventually I would see even less of my ds and if it didn't come off then would I question having spent his formative years away from him (I can hear the gasps of horror and expletives from you all now). He also thought that I would be under immense strain given the nature of dh's job as well. He admitted that "it was easier for a man", whilst acknowledging that he should not say that.

In essence, it does not help having a boss who is bordering on the stone age and morale is very low amongst my female friend there and, whilst I am angry and frustrated at 'the system', I am also a realist and understand what is required of me in a City firm. I have made the decision on the basis of us as a family and try and comfort myself with the thought that had I wanted to commit and go for partnership I could have done.

I have decided to look into training as a counsellor (could certainly offer a service to stressed city workers - coming to a conference room near you soon booms cinematic voice) on the basis that it is something I have always harboured a great interest in,plays to my strengths and will give me greater flexibility (so I'll be seeking advice on that via another thread); I have to work towards something else.

A huge thank you to everyone who offered such open and honest advice on my dilemma; it would be good to attend a meet up.

and are you pleased Mc?

christ, your boss is a lawyer and comes out with that? lovely. glad to hear you have made a decision and once again agree with issymum, doesn't have to be the end, could be the start of something different.

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lisalisa, hello! (promise I haven't stalked you over from your other thread - this is one of my favourites so always notice if something's added to it)

Just wanted to say that if you're around tomorrow you'd be most welcome at the City meetup - though I know what it's like trying to cram a City job into short hours, lunch is a luxury!

I'd love to meet you too lisalisa
If you've got a lot on why not just pop in for coffee ?

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Does the thameslink go into moorgate ? The restaurant is only a five/sixmin walk from there . Tempt, tempt......

lisalisa, loved the image of mumsnetters being on opposite sides of a transaction - heated negotiation: "crumpet, we have already advised you that clause 4(a)is unacceptable!"

I can't make the city meetup tomorrow, but woudl like to meet you all at the next one

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If anyone needs help trying to negotiate a flexible working solution, I have a recommendation. Have a look at www.time4balance.com. I recently sought advice from the lady who set this consultancy up. She is an ex-city lawyer which helps and she has been a great help to me. I haven't resolved my situation as yet but at least I am heading in the right direction and feel I am giving it my best shot. Best of luck!!

Well ex-city lawyer here now SAHM as of a week . We can't really afford it but hey sometimes you have to make decisions from the gut. I really couldn't balance work and home and the amount of money that I was making after paying nanny made it hardly worth it. Plus the stress that was making me ill.

lisalisa!