Help - any City lawyers thinking of not going back to work?

[muffinchops]

I am coming to the end of my maternity leave and am a senior litigation assistant with a large City firm. My dh is a corporate lawyer with another City firm and will be going for partnership over the next year and so, effectively will not be around.

I enjoy my job but since I had my ds who is now 8 months, I am an emotional wreck about leaving him. My firm is not flexible-worker friendly and, realistically, I cannot see how I could fulfill my role on a part time basis. I already feel bad for taking my full year's entitlement.

If I don't go back, I will have to carve out a new role somehow as I need to do something for me having worked so long and hard to get where I am today.

There's certainly an argument for trying going back and see how it pans out. Am going mad though with indecision and am adept at convincing myself one way and then the other (handy legal skill!!)

Am not a sahm type, but adore spending time with my ds and would just need to think of other things I could do.

Am lining up a meeting with my boss, hopefully this week in order to stop myself procrastinating further and in an attempt to move forward and make a decision.

Would love to hear from any like-minded bods who know the score re life in a City law firm.

muffinchops

I was in a similar position to you with DP so entrenched in his work that there was no way we could split the childcare. My career/social life etc had to be compromised (and my selfesteem), so I went back to work after my first, partly because of the social nature of it - it was exhausting and whilst I could be flexible in my hours to a degree the work never went away. No 2 ds came along as a surprise and was a difficult baby - he needed a lot of extra care - and I made the decision to focus on him. It was a big life moment and I had to make the decision alone. Once it was made life was a lot less stressful and I now wish I had not gone back after the first but focus on dd as well. I now realise you only get one chance to be with them as they grow up. I guess what I am saying is it depends on what support u have and how much stress u can bear.

Good luck with your decisions.

Binkie, further thoughts on your dilemma. I've experienced pay reviews as both recipient and giver and, for what it's worth, have the following observations.

If your firm's anything like mine then there is probably very little chance of the decision being changed and probably very little chance of the partner you talk to having any ability to do anything about this. However, this doesn't make it a waste of time. If you have a valid case and feel undervalued then you should tell them. If you can get them to agree that you have a point then it should help you next year as they will remember (at least I always do). Getting ever so slightly stroppy with them also gives the message that you know your own worth and won't be messed around.

In terms of approach, if I'm correct in assuming that there's nothing to be done, then I think you need to let your boss know that you understand his (I assume it's a man) position but that you want him to understand your point of view as well. I would then explain that you are disappointed for the following reasons and then set out your case for a better rise. Make it as factual and objective as possible - there's much more chance of getting him to agree with your individual points and if you've already accepted that it won't change anything then he's got nothing to lose by agreeing with you. It's also worth asking him to explain any anomalies that you are aware of - there may not be a valid reason but if you can get him to admit that then that might help him realise you have a point as well.

Keep it very calm and unemotional - you'll come over as really impressive and reasonable and understanding and won't give them any excuse to think of you as a moaner.

I've just previewed this and hope it doesn't come over as patronising - it's meant to be helpful and it has worked for me but I appreciate that all firms/employers are different so feel free to ignore it all if you want.

Good luck and have plenty of selfconfidence when you have the meeting. Remember your achievements and why you're asking for the discussion in the first place.

MrsWobble, thank you so much. The "other side" perspective is invaluable, and absolutely not patronising. Now I've had all this brilliant advice, I've got to live up to you all & do something!

Muffinchops, this has been a dreadful hijack of your thread, sorry. I am really looking forward to hearing what you decide to do, & especially how you decided - please keep us posted.

Reading this thread has really reassured me and has made me realise that I am not alone in my anxieties about returning to work after having child no 2. I am a commericial litigator, 3.5 yrs PQE with a City Firm, just outside MC! After having no 1 I had to return full-time as my request for part-time was refused (for various reasons, including being too junior and needing to gain the confidence of my seniors as well as keep up with my peers!). Just about coped but probably only as I knew that no 2 would be arriving soonish and therefore would be on maternity leave again. Really don't want to go back full-time this time and am going to make a flexible working application. Do any of you have any tips re how to approach it. Am being a bit pathetic about it all and it really is keeping me awake at night worrying so any help would be gratefully appreciated. Its a daunting prospect and have no idea where to start. As I can only make one application in a 12 month period, I really do want to give it my best shot.
Please help
Thanks in advance for your replies

Lisa- dh was in a city firm in tax and trusts- originally corporate but shifted more into private client- although still does some corporate stuff. One severely autistic child later and another child on the way and we decided we (I) needed more support than an absent dh so we moved way out into the sticks to be near my mother. Anyway he now works for a well respected large regional firm and finds the work more interesting than the City. He certainly has more responsibility- and has been fast tracked as the local expert in some areas iyswim. Big fish small pond etc. He says it has forced him to become a better lawyer as well- as he didn't have a big team to hide in anymore iyswim. TBH though hours are pretty vile (as bad as the city- but he can at least pop home for lunch) but the standard of work isn.t really any different. Paypacket is- but we still have a better standard of living and a much bigger house here than we would have had in London.

FWIW having seen what dh's job is like I have no idea ho anyone could manage to combine being a mother with working for a commercial firm. They are all such time stealing bastards!

Anwyay it might be worth trying the local firms- if you stay out of the real high street firms then you may find the work more interesting than you think. (I know dh s often working for the other side with people he worked with in London iyswim- so definitely same type of work).

oh and I've just started working from home- various things- so can be done..... And it gives me the flexibility I really need.

Jimjams thanks for that - it is interesting to hear what somebody else went through in same sort of area - hope things are much better for you now you have moved. What is the work you are doing from home? That is one of the things I am considering, alongside working for a local firm (but wouldn't want to put in the sort of hours your DH seems to do! I want it all ways!! )

well I do CV writing freelance, sell nappies (you don't make much from that though) and am setting up a website. But have also started working with another mumsnetter who wanted out of the rat race and I am hoping that I will eventually be able to drop everything else and provide a decent income (we do need me to do something now) doing just this business. Only just started that though- and it will be hard work, but flexible!

The hours down here were a bit of a shock to dh to be honest. He was expecting to drop hours after moving from the City but that hasn't happened.

Anyway must dash as I am meant to be revising for a Japanese exam tonight (see- flexible working form home )

Another view from the Bar - can't quite agree with turnagaincat. Yes you get some unexpected time off, but you also get the case out of town which keeps you away from your babies for 5 days and working into the night . Also pressure not to turn things down from clerks and clients, scary lulls in practice post mat leave, no one paying you if you are sick on mat leave, on holiday etc etc! Think a mumsnet lawyers and similar meetup is a great idea tho...

thanks, pph, may well start another thread on domestic help. did anyone see "new servants" last night? am off to start a thread on that.

Wow I didn't expect my thread (my first one on MN)to prmpt such a fantastic flow of conversation.

Binkie, thread not hijacked at all - open forum as far as I am concerned and v valid question and was v interested by MrsWobble's sound propositions.

LucieB - obviously have nothing but complete empathy for your situation and totally echo the sleepless nights. I wake up every morning with a sense of dread at the moment feeling completely stuck in a rut of indecsion unable to move forward.

Similarly I echo LucieB's request for advice on how to approach the 'big meeting'.

I am hoping to meet the head of my group next week who I have worked alongside and have a good rapport with. As I have mentioned, if I am going to give it a shot back at work I was thinking of proposing 5 days a week but changing my hours so that at least I get to snatch some time with ds a.m and p.m and then will have to work in the evening where necessary. I know this will be subject to the vagaries of some meetings and any cases that go to trial.

However, my boss is not really pro any form of flexible working and I fear that once I step across that threshold, I will don my professional hat and talk myself into seven days a week and no pay!!

I need to be firm because with dh being completely out of the equation, I do have some limitations plus I want ds to have at least some consistency seeing me (being first time mother and all the neuroses that comes with that). At the same time, I'm a realist and can see matters from an employer's view i.e if someone takes out an injunction on my client and I have left for the evening...then what (do what I can from home I suppose). Clearly some young bachelor type who will give his life for the office is preferable over me, but then some firms will still be locked into the stone age. I'm prepared to be honest and express that I simply cannot give the time of bum on seats in the office that I did before (although i can still do the work), and if that's not good enough, I'll have to have a re-think.

Any suggestions as to how I package the big meeting??!!??

I think a meet up is a fabulous idea; the input on this thread has been truly inspiring and am utterly grateful for the supportive and open comments.

Will definitely be looking up pph's thread on domestic help and will probably be starting another one re potentially moving back to London, then I can sort out my inertia and my life.

This has been a very enlightening thread, and hope that it has helped and not hindered muffin chops. Unfortunately the choice has to be yours and your DH's.

I returned to work full time after DS - big 4 accountancy doing M&A (4 yrs PQE)- hours horrible - but my DH also did the same job. So when both of us had to work to till 2am every night plus weekends- hard choices had to be made as to who went to office and who worked from home.

In fact no-one has mentioned weekends here - no child care - my family had to step in a number of times while both Dh and I were in the office. Thus didn't get to see DS for literally weeks for more than 30 mins.

To reduce the hours the only thing they could offer me was a "technical" type job 9-5 (Although I constant get gibbs from people saying I work part time). This work just isn't me, but then I couldn't give my all to the job I had before, which I found very frustrating.

Now that no 2 is on the way I have made the decision not to come back after maternity. Its a personal choice. I know already that I will go stir crazy round the house, and financially we will be up the swanny, but I don't want to be under pressure all the time to get my kids to bed early so that I can respond to emails, or go on conference calls, and made to feel that dispite all that I am not inputting as much as my colleague (male) who are in the office doing the same.

Don't know how anyone manages once the kids get to school age and finish at 3, presumably after school clubs. And obviously the stage at which they refuse to go to bed, or need homework doing......

Don't get me wrong I am full of admiration for those of you who do manage to juggle everything, and get self-fulfillment. I just don't think I am one of those. anyway if I can be good at one thing why shouldn't I be good at something else, there are endless jobs out there just waiting for me to find them!!!

Thanks Mchops, nice of you. It is all fascinating, isn't it.

Yet another me too me too posting ... Pollingfold, I am just about to be in exactly that school age situation - ds in reception now, dd starting in Sept. We're losing fabulous nanny when dd starts school, as she doesn't want to do part time (suspect also she really wants a baby charge again) and what am I going to do? What I need is a governess - and short of a time machine where can you get one?

i agree, great post, issymum, especially point 8.

it will be very, very, very hard if your dh effectively absent from the family. why is it ok for him to do this?

I'm a soon to be partner in a Group A accountancy firm but heading up the technical department so happily free of the external client hassles, although the 'internal clients' can be rather troublesome at times, interfering as they do with my growing mumsnet addiction!

I have been following this thread as it has a lot of relevance to my career choices since having children. I left a big 4 firm where I was a director when making partner was clearly at odds with my insistence on working part time

My children and now 4 and 5 and I work 4.5 days per week but thankfully get the morning of my half day working from home. I have a very comfortable little life with reasonable hours and very good salary which will go up again when I am made up to partner.

But - I have been headhunted for a job in the technical department of a large financial services company. Would be a very challenging role as my experience of FS is rather limited but frankly staying here for the next x years doing this technical role will send me insane!

So... Issymums last post was a reality call to me. I think I should be happy with my lot. May not be perfect but it is working for me and the children and my DH (who is moving to a high profile job in the near future). But the new opportunity has my name on it, if I don't take it will I regret it?????

Ah well, I always say to the bright young things starting out in their careers - remember that in these types of careers feminism has given us the right to choose, it will take a bit longer until having it all is possible for all!!

This is why I've been Issymum's biggest fan for about a decade (but never previously told her, of course). Kind, perceptive, straight-talking, spot-on, and bloody amusing with it.
I aimed for 6.1 through two children, thought "bugger it, NO! this is mad and I don't want it". Went in-house and found myself hurtling towards position 6.2. I and am post baby no 3, am 75% likely to pause for a career-break and not go back, therefore fulfilling 6.3.

Thought of not working for a while still scares the bejesus out of me though.

PPH you're NOT Issymum's biggest fan, I may be a more recent candidate but am much fannier (so to speak).

I personally am in awe of everyone on this thread. And now am going to go back to work...

Issymum,

Wonderfully structured advice and had me virtually crying with laughter (probably coupled with mild hysteria)

Apologies for hitting any sensitve spots with people and for the navel gazing (you must be bored rigid by now). Would much rather have the no nonsense talking stuff. I know I'm the only one who can make the decision.

MrsWobble we all bow to you!

Not only completely agree, but special admiration, Issymum, re your courage .. I'll confess to having sent poor Muffinchops, focus of an awful lot of projection among us here, a personal e-mail saying something jolly similar to you (without being in the same universe of clever, pointful and amusing) .. but far too wet to go public with it.

I too would like to do a bit of praise of issymum's fantastic posting. I particularly remember the one on 'my heart belongs to daddy'

you,lady, should write a novel.

errr..the last bit wasn't the posting, it was me telling issymum she should write a novel.