Help - any City lawyers thinking of not going back to work?

[muffinchops]

I am coming to the end of my maternity leave and am a senior litigation assistant with a large City firm. My dh is a corporate lawyer with another City firm and will be going for partnership over the next year and so, effectively will not be around.

I enjoy my job but since I had my ds who is now 8 months, I am an emotional wreck about leaving him. My firm is not flexible-worker friendly and, realistically, I cannot see how I could fulfill my role on a part time basis. I already feel bad for taking my full year's entitlement.

If I don't go back, I will have to carve out a new role somehow as I need to do something for me having worked so long and hard to get where I am today.

There's certainly an argument for trying going back and see how it pans out. Am going mad though with indecision and am adept at convincing myself one way and then the other (handy legal skill!!)

Am not a sahm type, but adore spending time with my ds and would just need to think of other things I could do.

Am lining up a meeting with my boss, hopefully this week in order to stop myself procrastinating further and in an attempt to move forward and make a decision.

Would love to hear from any like-minded bods who know the score re life in a City law firm.

A Stay At Home Mum perspective (I too worked for one of the top accountancy firms):

I had been there 8 years and my career was going very well. I then fell pregnant with ds1, took maternity leave and went back on 3 days a week (which was great that I had the opportunity to do this). I found it very tough working at a senior level on 3 days a week, though; I squashed extra work in here, there and everywhere to stay ahead of the game.

ds1 went to a fantastic nursery from 7 months but one day took a small bump to the head (nothing serious) and on the form they give you at the end of the day it informed me of the bump and said for treatment "... lots of cuddles". I felt absolutely dreadful. I should have been there for him.

I spent most of my time during this juggling period thinking I was not doing justice to either job that I was trying to do; my gorgeous boy's mother and a senior manager earning an great salary, but no longer quite 'giving it her all'.

I now have two gorgeous boys and even though I never considered myself a "sahm type", I am a sahm now. ds1 has just turned 2 and 2 years have gone in the twinkling of an eye. ds2 is nine months old. Work will wait a while, but bumps on little boys' heads need attending to now (IYSWIM). I don't want to miss out. I am lucky that I can stay at home as I have a very supportive husband.

I truly admire any woman can make it all work for her, I really do.

Oh God - breaking out into a cold sweat over the numbering and sub-paras already (gulp). Am relieved to see that none of you have yet added the qualification that anything you have commented upon constitutes no admission of liability.

princesspeahead, would also be very interested on any top tips for hiring a pseudo Mary Poppins (and anyone else)

Lisa, I've never managed to settle here and working in London helped me get my fix. During my maternity leave, I've just succumbed to tacit acceptance and tried to enjoy it otherwise it would be a waste of energy. I joined the local NCT and through that have met quite a few people and have gravitated to a couple of people who I have more in common with. I agree though, alot have grown up in the area and have family close by etc. As children get older I think you come into more contact with people as well. You might try some of the local baby groups and see what that yields, otherwise plot your escape

Philly, I keep an eye on the jobs going in my old Big 4 firm and there are, quite regularly, technical tax jobs up for offers. I can imagine that someone with your skills would be invaluable. My only thought is that perhaps smaller provincial offices would ask for technical help from head office? For the life of me, I can't remember what we used to do but I always passed technical tax issues on to the tax partner! But how about stand alone accountancy practices or larger provincial ones? I bet they would bite your arm off to get you in!

One of the other problems I am facing is being out of the industry for 2ish years. It's quite daunting going to interviews with people who are younger, would quite happily dedicate all waking hours to the job, don't have kids and are ruthlessly ambitious!

Hi again - foxinsocks - I take your point - I guess that whilst the ngo sector might not offer the same amount of choices for someone who wants to stay within their profession, moving beyond your profession it's a huge and extremely interesting sector. (btw I'm not a lawyer, I work in policy) I also take the other points about nannies being good for sickness (iyswim) and - if done respectfully - agree that you can get a good two-way flexibility thing going that you can't get with a nursery.

Lisa - what can I tell you about the ngo sector? Pay - in a middlish seniorish job you can pay for a nanny and break even or pay for two lots of childcare/two nursery places and have a tiny bit of spending money left over (not enough to make it worthwhile the extra effort, dropping off and picking up if you have a dh on a decent income, imo). Unless you look for small ngos you'll find there's no easy way in - recruitment policies are generally very strict - every job v. widely advertised, (in my case internationally) tight job descriptions and person specs and strict equal ops policies. On the whole good jobs don't tend to be part-time though there's more openess to job-shares in some ngos (not mine unfortunately). I got a part-time job by - basically - getting pregnant - I could then return part-time to my original job for a year. I've managed to extend part-time for various ad hoc reasons but there were no guarantees. Having said that there is a good level of understanding in terms of having to leave on time or have time off for child-related emergencies.

In my ngo voluntary work is rarely a good way in for someone with experience - unless you're prepared to do an awful lot of photocopying - which I doubt! Some do have decent internships - but generally aimed at recent graduates - and you'd be out of pocket if paying for childcare. There's a good website called charity job which has a good weekly email of job ops and - which may be of interest - has details of agencies that specialise in the ngo field. They'd probably be able to give you good advice, looking at your cv and skills etc. The Guardian on Wednesday is the other place to look. Send off for a few job details even if you have no intention of applying - just to see what the job descriptions are like. There are lots of specialist areas of law that you could look at developing skills in that are really interesting - refugee law (many ngos employ legal advisers in this area), ihl, human rights law, disability law, discrimination. Hope this helps a bit. Let me know if you have any particular questions.

Hatter, many thanks for all the info - I shall start reading the Guardian rather than DH's copy of the Times when he gets home!! It's really helpful to have a few starting points.

princesspeahead - can't believe I passed up the opportunity for numbered sub-paras - childish error and can only plead brain turned to mush in mitigation.... supported by DH who told me I was logically inconsistent in our conversation over dinner . Shall now go and read The Smart Woman's Guide to Staying at Home in hopes of becoming smart...

Lisa I read that book too!! First few chapters were good and then started to lose patience when the author advocates taking time to stare at the leaves and really appreciate them and daring yourself to be impulsive, like sticking your hand down a clean loo (no joke).

Must go, dh will be home soon. Think will go and watch the Aileen Wournos documentary (that is bound to ensure a peaceful slumber!)

Muffin, I think we should thank you for starting this. Slightly overserious response to Issymum's meetup idea: it does seem as if some sort of mentoring circle might be nice ... I REALLY want to wake up one morning and be as level-headed as MrsWobble.

So, clever people (no doubt better at solving other people's problems than own): how do you think I should go about asking for a pay rise, given that whatever I propose in the way of flexible working seems to be okayed BUT then - despite doing increasingly difficult work - year on year (well only two so far) the raise is inflation-only? Or, honestly, should I just be thankful and shut up?

I'll take that as a bog off, then

Please don't everyone stop posting on this just because of my silly question.

I'll start over by doing some tips for finding a nanny (sorry Muffinchops for any repetition):

• give yourself six weeks: longer, and you won't find applicants as it's too far ahead, shorter, and you might be forced to take someone you're not 100% about;

• if it's first time round, I would use an agency & just cope with the stonking fee. You can really tell who an agency thinks is a great candidate, and (unless you're completely confident) before you've had the experience of finding someone, that's indispensable;

• sort out exactly what you want, & talk to other mums/agencies about whether what you want fits the working norm - so qualifications vs. not-but-experienced, living in or out, hours, amount of babysitting, duties other than nursery, access to car, holidays, overtime rate, weekend work or not. Both so you know what you should be paying and also so that applicants have a sense that you're the sort of family that won't move the goalposts (I think that kind of sense is often the sort of make or break that means a nanny will take the job or not); and

• when interviewing, it's the nannies who focus on the children (ie, not so much on the parents) who have always turned out best with us.

sorry binkie - no question is a silly question in this arena.

I would say that part of the problems we often face at work is because we almost adopt a 'I- should-be-thankful-I-am-getting-paid-at-all-even-though-I-work-twice-as-hard' attitude. Men on the other hand go in with a more 'I'm-bloody-good-and-am-worth-more-money-and-a-promotion' stance.

It's tough and perhaps the way to approach it is to have some discussion along the lines that you were surprised that your raise was only in accordance with inflation and perhaps ask whether that was the policy behind this year's increases. I must say, that where I work those sorts of discussions just don't happen as we are notified of our pay rises and any bonus element and that's it as your appraisal pretty much sets how much you get within the banding.

I definitely wouldn't do yourself down by thinking you should be grateful though. If you genuinely feel aggrieved, then you should have a discussion; they can only say no.

dinosaur, sorry to hear that, poor you - kind of you to say though, as it does put things in context.

Of course no disparaging re meetup!! - anyway the pecking order is really no. of children & you (nearly, now) are at the top (unless there's a scary person out there with 4).

Seconding Issymum's idea of a meet up. And of course catering could be organised on the basis that it's marketing those of us that are in house...

one of the advantages of partnership is a significant improvement in cash flow so not sure if I've got the cheek to charge it (unless any of you turn out to be clients....) but happy to put a card behind the bar at Corney & Barrow or equivalent for a drink one lunchtime or after work

only joking about the catering - happy to bring plastic. I'm in Canary Wharf, but would imagine most others are city based?

I am a solicitor and I've been lucky since I had ds. I have had several 'flexible' jobs and have also been a SAHM. Although very different, each one has fitted in with my needs at that particular time.

I initially went back to work 3 days a week at my previous firm - this was the right thing for me to do at the time - I could not have coped with being a SAHM at that point.

I then had 2 years as a SAHM during which time I had my dd. I thoroughly enjoyed this time and made friends through the NCT etc.

I was then offered a job on a consultancy basis p/t from home for a City firm (through a friend) and did this for 4 years. It worked out at less than one day a week but it kept me up to date and sane.

During this time, my dh was regularly away on business - sometimes 2 or 3 nights a week and I found that we were living such different lives that we were at risk of growing apart. I was also resenting the time that he was away and felt frustrated that his career was flourishing whilst mine had stalled. I decided it was time for me to return to 'a real job' and he agreed to work from home one day a week so that he could pick up the children from school.

I now have a job I really love (a PSL type role) and our lives are much more in balance and equal again. I work 3 days pw, with one of them being at home.

There are many different ways of keeping your career going - the essential thing is to find a solution that works for you and fits in with your family's needs, so that you do not end up mega-stressed on the one hand or resentful on the other.

Rather delayed answer to Binkie, but I think it in part depends on how senior you are. I am now impossibly old (37) and have been a solicitor for about 13 years, but didn't want to be a partner (I thought it would give me less of a life - but then I had DD and realised that being a partner would have been a doddle in comparison) What I found is that above certain levels of qualification there aren't any "bands" and I was just given inflation rises for a couple of years before I went on maternity leave. The justification for this was that I would otherwise soon be earning more than the junior salaried partners, but as they refuse to reveal what that is, I suspect I was being fobbed off!

In the end, I decided that rather than get bothered, I should simply assess whether I was happy with the amount I was being paid for the work I did and if not, I would talk to them about it. I decided in the end not to make a fuss about it, but that was in part because the only solicitor in my department who was more senior to me had also only had inflationary pay rises for the last three years, so I felt they were being consistent (and I was being reasonably well paid).

It sounds like you might be more junior if your work has been getting harder. If you don't want to lauch straight in with a partner, had you considered asking HR whether there are specific policies that apply to pay reviews for part timers, and also whether there are bands for each year (a lot of firms have them but don't admit to them unless asked, apparently!)

Hope that's some help

Thankyou to everyone!

Lisa, you and your colleague's experience is particularly interesting. I am pretty senior - off the top of my firm's PQE bands, and (like you) have said I don't want partnership (at least for now), plus I have my flexible working deal. So there's a real lack of comparables, so I do appreciate what you (and dinosaur) have said.

It just grates a bit that there's pressure (and yes from myself as well) to take on the really complex jobs (I do asset finance, by the way) while being paid not much more than when I was doing the straightforward stuff. Hmm. Value to the firm assessment is indicated, isn't it. OK. Let's organise a meetup and that will be my deadline for having Talked to Them.

Gosh. Poor you and your colleagues.

Issymum, I don't suppose you could possibly comment ...?

Oh, my mistake - I had you down as belonging to one of the MC firms. Scoping out the field, that's all, very nosy - sorry.