High earning mothers

[ClarissaG]

I'm interested to start a discussion group for Mums and Mums to be who are juggling (or planning to juggle) a high flying career and motherhood. I loath to use the term 'Power Mums', but those who earn enough (£100k plus) to afford a team of help, but have the kind of pressures and working hour expectations that that level of salary brings.

I read the Mumsnet Guest blog with interest (www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_blogs/1977242-Why-is-society-so-unsupportive-of-high-achieving-power-mums) but the comments less so.

Is there scope for a supportive group for such Mums with practical ideas, experiences and thoughts rather than judgement about whether we can 'have it all'?

I am mid thirties, a VC, 12 weeks pregnant and have not yet told my fellow partners. I want it all but have no idea if that is realistic or how my future is going to pan out!

Nappy, you need to move away from separate finances, especially if you are currently not earning but paying for you and DS from your savings.

Why is your set up like that?

nappyrat if that was on the relationships thread there would be a chorus of LTB's

Seriously though, what to describe is not a good situation in the long term for you, your partner and your child. You need to talk to him and address all this. One thing that I am certain of is that for a relationship to work it needs to be a partnership with both getting the support they need. This doesn't mean 50/50 but it sounds like you are getting very little support from him and that's not a good thing!

In the City nappy's husband's hours might even be called part time. I start every day around 6.30am when I come down to check emails. I still have work to do now it's 8pm as I'm out with work tomorrow (although I do integrate home and work when I work from home so the hours aren't quite a long as that might appear).

I suppose I was never in the minipie situation as before we married we agreed if nannies didn't work out my children's father would give up work (we expected I would earn more which I did). Nannies did work out so that never came to pass but I just took a few weeks maternity leave (2 with the first child) that there was never a period when sexist patterns developed at home - he was doing 50% at least from day 1 and half the jobs and childcare at the weekend. So how can you help a man do more? I think most women on this thread high earners who are feminists would say you just hand sunny Jim the baby at 9am on Saturday and say see you at 3pm. I'm going out. The on Sunday you offer to take the baby and toddler out and hand him the hoover and a list of jobs. Then you sit down with him and have a fair division - eg he might take over all the washing in the household if you cook. He might do the weekly shopping or order it on line and put it away when it comes. Making someone 100% responsible for a job rather than just helping you out when you ask is the key to it.

I also breastfed though so I am justthinking back to baby number 1. yes she wanted to breastfeed for ghours most evenings but he would change her. He would hold her after a feed. She cried a lot. I would go to bed at 10pm if she were crying all evening and he'd hold her however tired he was until about mid night whilst I slept and then pass her to me for a feed. He did all the washing in those early days. I hardly knew how to work the machine - a convenient inability.

A 4 hour per day commute does seem very wasteful though. Can you move closer to his work and still do yours? Can he do childcare handover on a Monday morning, commute to his work, do a long day, stay over night, start early on Tuesday and get home in time to do evening handover on a Tuesday? Then you do the opposite - early start on a Monday, late finish on a Tuesday (for example)?

Ladies, you have made me smile! ;) I love your frank advice & comments!! And it has brought some much-needed light relief to what has become a b-awful situation at home!
Business - agree completely! Sep finances was just never an issue before because we were both earning so much we just never ever had any money problems / worries / even areas we needed to discuss re. cash. But now I see non-earning potentially looming, the joint finances thing is something I feel strongly about...funnily enough, he doesn't! But I will be winning that one, sooner or later! No desire (from either of us) to move closer to the City unfortunately, so the commute is here to stay. N.B> I would sometimes kill for a 4 hr train trip to read a mag, listen to some music.
Mitchell2 - re. LTB chorus! Each time he has opened his mouth recently, I think of the chorus of LTBs MNers would issue!! But perseverance for the time being is needed, I fear! I think he is just a man-baby (not even child, ladies!) who is taking longer than my ds to develop & mature!
Laura - re. the part timer comments! Oh how I would love to respond with that when I hear the next 'woe is me' sighing session! Must admit, 2 weeks mat leave sounds utterly horrendous to me. I couldn't have done that. And yes, much as that doesn't allow the stereotypical sexism to develop, I still think ultimately what I needed was support and a sense of partnership rather than him to become a complete replacement for me (as unpopular a view as it may be, I actually don't think mum & dad are totally interchangeable at v young age).

Childcare costs will come out of joint income, yes?

My train commute is a good part of my day, it's true.

Yes, it would be shared jointly, absolutely. It's just all a bit ad-hoc. Needs 'formalising' (wrong word) though for me, now.

Can I join? I just about earn enough (£100k for a 4 day week) but I feel neither rich nor a power mum! I have 2 DC (2 and 5). Just some random musings:
DC1 starting school has made a big difference compared to having 2 at nursery. I now have 2 children in 2 different places, and school, nursery and after-school nanny to liaise with. With nursery they are providing a service for working parents, and you are paying for it. With school (DC1 is in a state school) they are educating your child. There are more requests for my/DHs time during working hours (only 1/3 of the parents evening slots are after 5.30, for example). And there are things you can't delegate, like attending class assemblies. Either you are there or you aren't - no point sending the nanny.

Me too. I've done various combinations of hours since having dc (am fortunate enough to be able to set my hours within reason - a big advantage of being senior in your industry), but now they are both at school (yR and y1), the logistics are terrible. And this is with me on 3 days, not even full time. I'm seriously considering whether the compromises involved in carrying on working are worthwhile.

It's not the wrap around/holiday cover - we are fortunate enough to have a fantastic childminder, gardener, cleaner etc - it's the minutae of their lives. For example, Rainbows, Beavers, swimming lessons, organising playdates (I didn't do any in the first year of school with dc1 and they seemed to be suffering socially, so not just a luxury to run them). It's only going to get worse with music lessons and anything else they want to pursue. There are constant demands from the school to deal with, and homework in all seriousness hasn't started yet, which will be another time sapper. I am starting to see why public school might be attractive as some of this is covered by them in their time, although am reluctant to go that route.

If any of you wonderful ladies with older children have any tips I would be exceedingly grateful!

A few more thoughts. About the 'team of help' - I have a DH who shares everything (drop off, pick up, days off for sick child etc) 50/50 (apart from he works FT). He earns a similar salary. We have a cleaner, nursery, after school nanny, and an agency for emergency nanny cover. BUT there is still a lot to do! Endless washing, buying clothes and shoes, sorting out nanny/cleaner (payroll, instructions, birthday and christmas presents etc), buying presents for childrens birthday parties, ferrying to birthday parties. And as I said before I do not feel rich - I would love to have the cleaner more hours, or the nanny one evening a week as well, but we are saving up for private secondary school.....

The entire day seems to be made up of 'time choices'. What do I need/want most? Sleep or an hours 'organising time'? Bedtime stories or gym? Take DC1 to birthday party or spend time with DC2? Swimming lessons or library? Reading practice or cooking?

Ithink I agree - although from my experience of friends with children in private schools, although they may do things like music lessons, they are just as demanding in terms of parental time (tons of homework) just probably in a slightly different way.

I earn >100k and have a child now at school. I work in a job which does require juggling.

Thoughts based on experience:

1. Get the best childcare you can afford
2. Be there when your child needs you (e.g. nativity play etc)
3. Block out in your diary times if you know that you are going to be in transit (eg 6.30 - 7.30) when you may want to be with your child
4. Put school things in your work diary as reminders
5. Prepare yourself /think about what you will do if your nanny is ill - what is your back up plan - it is a good idea to have 2 other options. It doesn't look good if you are constantly off as your nanny has not turned up
6. Try and be focused at work
7. Sharing of chores are very important

Very good list. Someone asking about children at school - well we still had a nanny for the younger two when our older started (she went on the school coach to a fee paying school at 5 - Haberdashers). I think she just did more at school and the school expected bright feminist mothers who worked so I don't remember being torn about school things in work time although I was always happy to block off time for any school events (there were not many) during the day - eg the school carol service although the senior school holds theirs in St Martin's in the Fields so quite easy to get from the office in London to there anyway.

I don't look back on it with rose tinted spectacles however now the youngest are teenagers. I remember how hard it is but I think it's harder at home. i certainly found being in the office 3 weeks after a birth really really really easy compared to what being a home alone with a toddler and baby would have been like with the constant on your feed demand, washing and cleaning. I felt those train journeys to work reading and then being treated as fairly important at work and sitting down all day and time to get yourself a drink were like some kind of luxury cruise compared to being at home with a small baby and toddler. i have never understood why people think it is so much harder to work after a birth. it's harder at home unless you have loads of servants I suppose.

I also feel I just get better at it. 5 children, oldest is 29. That is a lot of years to practise anything and that with the first child we are all earning how to organise things, pay bills, do the admin, organise lives. After nearly 3 decades it probably also easier because I just have more experience, same with work - the longer you do it the easier it gets.

I certainly remember the time choices thing and every second filled when they were younger. it is not like that now. I woke them up at 6.45. I've just had 30 minutes in my office at home, there was only one work email over night, the teenagers get their own breakfast. I have put on the dishwasher for the cleaner to empty later but other than that I've had spare time and now I'll catch the tube and read.

I would agree that independent schools make it easier in terms of rushing around for extra curricular stuff. Mine do sport every day at school, swim twice a week at school, play chess after school, drama after school.
They play for a local rugby team on a sunday morning and the piano teacher comes to our house but otherwise all the extra curricular stuff is at school. Saves a lot of rushing about.

Alice - my dc are 6 and 3. I know what you mean about the playmates. I now work 4.5 days so there is one afternoon when we can do them and also try and have some at weekends or during school holidays.
Some bits do get easier though. Ds1 is happy to be left at a birthday party so he can enjoy that while we enjoy rare time

Its correct that employers can absolutely refuse to allow you to use your annual leave to go part time. Employers can make you take all your annual leave at a time to suit them as long as they give you notice (double the amount of leave they want you to take). That being said they might not even notice what you're doing.

alone with ds2.

Does anyone actually feel like they have a lot of money? Maybe that comes when the mortgage is paid off and the kids have left home.

We both earn six figures and we don't live in London but still don't seem to feel well off. If someone had told me that when I was a trainee solicitor earning £10,850 (law society minimum wage) I'd have thought they were crazy.

In some ways I'm dreading my daughter starting school, how do parents manage playdates, after school activities etc if you both work full time and can't simply block out 3pm onwards a couple of days a week?
How much can after school nannies reasonably be expected to do, will they go on playdates/take child to swimming lessons/practice reading/writing/spelling? And what's the best way to find one?

Millionprammiles - playdates/after school activities, my nanny does them. I cannot see a time at the moment where I won't need a nanny to be honest given the role I have (my DS is nearly 6)

She does the reading/spelling/swimming. My nanny is a housekeeper/nanny - think about school holidays - they are long..... and you will need a plan.

I sometimes wonder what is going to happen with the home work when it ramps up - but will cross that bridge when I come to it. It is complex project management!

Other tips I have found work for me:

I put in my diary as a reminder when DC needs things for school (eg if needs Dad's tie)
I get the list for events way in advance and block these out
I share with my DH/nanny taking DS to school - so I get to take him in (and keep connection with people) - but also am not always going into work dead on the dot of 9.30
I try and have a can do attitude if meetings need to be late - but judge as to whether 1) I need to be there 2) someone else can be there/I can catch up later and if I can't be there I don't automatically come up with the line I need to pick up kids - I usually say I have a "diary conflict" - true!!

My observation of reliance on afterschool clubs in reception is that people do get stressed that their child is tired/they have to take a lot of time off as children get ill

Crosseyedcat - thanks for this. Do you mind my asking how you found your nanny? I've a good network of other working mums in the area we live now but we're likely to move by the time dd starts school so won't be so easy to get local recommendations/info.

I think dp and I will be able to manage sharing drops offs but its the after school and hols care. I don't want to find there's a clique of SAHMs whose children all play together and dd ends up feeling left out.

Re extra curricular stuff/school years - I haven't got there yet (DD is 15 months) but I imagine we will need to have an afterschool nanny or even a full time nanny/housekeeper. One of my (many) reasons for trying to stay in a top paying job is so we can afford whatever help we need.

Our fab nanny organises lots of playdates at the moment so I imagine that would continue through to school age? Same applies to extra curricular activities - it would be me/DH (realistically me) who would choose and book the activities but nanny who ferries, packs kit etc.

Someone upthread said "no point sending nanny to nativity play" - actually I don't see why not. I was very close to my nanny as a child, would have been happy to see her in the audience.

I will be selecting DD's school partly on how much they seem to expect parents to be around/available! If it's a "bake cupcakes every tuesday, costumes every friday" kind of school it will be written off.

What I can see suffering is our own social life - how do we get to meet other parents if we don't do drop off/pick up and the nativity plays etc.

littlered at present we are doing ok financially - but I'm aware it will get a LOT more expensive once we get to the stage of having nursery school or school fees to pay and still needing full time nanny as well. Eeek. Luckily DH and I have always been savers, and we've been together a long time before having DC, so the mortgage has been paid down over the childless years.

On a different note.. DH and I have been talking about timing of DC2. Any tips in that area...? What age gap works best from a career/childcare point of view?

minipie: "bake cupcakes every tuesday, costumes every friday" - do schools really do that?? I've never baked a cupcake in my life and have no intention of starting now. M&S it is.

Slight exaggeration! But you know what I mean. There does seem to be variation between schools in how much parental involvement/presence they expect.