High earning mothers

[ClarissaG]

I'm interested to start a discussion group for Mums and Mums to be who are juggling (or planning to juggle) a high flying career and motherhood. I loath to use the term 'Power Mums', but those who earn enough (£100k plus) to afford a team of help, but have the kind of pressures and working hour expectations that that level of salary brings.

I read the Mumsnet Guest blog with interest (www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_blogs/1977242-Why-is-society-so-unsupportive-of-high-achieving-power-mums) but the comments less so.

Is there scope for a supportive group for such Mums with practical ideas, experiences and thoughts rather than judgement about whether we can 'have it all'?

I am mid thirties, a VC, 12 weeks pregnant and have not yet told my fellow partners. I want it all but have no idea if that is realistic or how my future is going to pan out!

"What I can see suffering is our own social life - how do we get to meet other parents if we don't do drop off/pick up and the nativity plays etc."

Do you need to make friends with the other parents? But as someone with school age dc, you do make friends - you pick up from parties at weekends, there are evening events (haven't read whole thread but surely you and your dh don't work 24:7?). It's quite a gradual thing, but five years of school have taught me it's better to be slow making parent friends, it's like uni - the ones you pair up with in the first week are the ones you're avoiding like the plague by the end of the year.

I agree with crosseyedcat!

I now have one at school and one at nursery. My nanny does drop offs, picks, afterschool activities etc. When my children are at school, she will either stay with us in a housekeeper/nanny role or we will get someone else to fulfil that role. I do the drop off at school (but not nursery) 2/3 mornings a week and one pick up, and dh does 1/2 drop offs as well.

I simply couldn't be with my dh if he didn't do what I perceive to be his fair share. First 4.5 years as parents, this, to me, meant 50/50, however, it became clear about 6 months ago that this was causing him no end of stress, because he works in a deal environment and so my insistence that he came home to do bedtime with me (our two nightmare to settle) was stressing him out. We compromised.

As i said earlier, I found school overwhelming when dc1 started school in September but it's gone much better this term. The difference has been three things. First, I have got more help at home. I have upped my cleaners hours etc, although, I am looking for a housekeeper because I still find myself doing way too much at home. Second, syncing of diaries. We have a "home" calendar and it now has all of the kids activities (they do a lot!) as well as our social activities on there. On my ipad, I can now see everything to do with home and work. That makes a huge difference to me feeling in control. Finally, I have been saying for the last year....if only I had a PA at home. Now I do. It's been about 5 weeks, but omg, she's a total godsend! Between her and my work PA, I don't have to think about admin at all. Just really simple things, like helping organise my dd's birthday party, researching presents for people, arranging for decorators to come and give quotes, booking theatre tickets and dinner reservations, researching and booking our family holidays for this year. All the things that I want to do but which suck up my time. She's been worth every single penny.

By the way, has anyone looked at Citymothers - they are a networking forum which people might find useful - www.citymothers.co.uk - it's been a long thread and couldn't remember whether I had mentioed them before!

I found my nanny as someone I had kept in touch with from a playgroup I went to when on maternity leave. Friends nannies often know other nannies looking for new roles I find

Minipie - we have exactly what you said though - bake sales/project to be done at home etc. I just find that I either 1) delegate for nanny to do or 2) have in diary early and find my inner domestic goddess side

For those wanting advice on how to cope with homework etc, personally I think sending dc to boarding school so it's all done there is extreme, but I know some who do do this (and then complain they have to work all hours to pay fees .

For me the solution has been a) find a good after-school nanny. We employ a student, as the hours are ideal for them and they're easily educated enough to help a child with homework.

b) from the get-go, encourage you child to do homework independently. Make a big fuss of them for doing so, say they're becoming independent learners etc, that the mistakes they make are just as important as the things they get right, in terms of showing the teacher what they do/don't understand. Then make it clear to teachers at parents' evenings or via notes that this is your strategy and you want hope your child's work will be marked in that light. It's just as important for dc as for you to learn this lesson. Do not give up your jobs in order to help a nine-year-old do geography!

c) Of course, you can glance at h'work at weekends and help with anything they're really stuck on, correct glaring errors. But only glance, never get in the habit of checking it assiduously or this will become entrenched.

One for the list
8) always pop into those book sale things that happen in the office [Book People ?] I get all my birthday party presents there for nursery/reception age children. Just buy up a selection and they are ready when you need them.

One of the tips I have is to look at other family set-ups in the whole, and if you like them better, try to move your set up towards that, and if you don't, try to not worry about individual bits that are better.

E.g. rather than thinking 'I wish my DC could have more playdates/go to tennis lessons/learn Mandarin like X, Y and Z, look at the whole set up that X, Y and Z families have. I see a huge spectrum of how other families do it 1 SAHP, 1 WP, or 1 very part time parent and one FT parent, or 2 part time parents, or 2 full time parents. Some families that have made the choice to stop at one child. Apart from reducing the number of children you have (!) you have all the choices they do, maybe more. And when I look at my set up in the round, I am very happy with it.

Whilst DH and I are both v well paid, neither of us are on a 'supertrack'. Whilst either of us, with a SAHP or a full time nanny, could double our salary in a few years, we are not going to do that because neither of us want to be a SAHP and we want to spend as much time as we can with the children.

Re. the comments about not feeling rich on 2 x 6-fig salaries, I can partly see where people are coming from.

My parents sent all 4 of us children to private 2ndry schools and earned about 45k between them. They did it by getting every single grant / assisted place / scholarship going for us all.
Despite earning about 4 times their income, I cannot see us being able to afford the same for our dc. Ridiculous really as I consider us to earn a high income & live quite modestly on the whole.

The only ppl I know who can afford it have had major handouts from grandparents for houses or have offered to pay dgc through school.

I also wonder though if ppl get trapped in a certain lifestyle because of their jobs & the pressure / expectations of certain material things that come with a certain type of career?? Thankfully have never really felt the need to succumb to the big house / big posh car pressure thank god but sometimes I do feel like a fish out if water on that front.

I agree re the not feeling rich on the 2x6 figure salaries but I guess it's all relative. When I was earning a 5th of what I was I actually felt 'richer' and can never remember thinking I was going without. We live a very conservative life, BUT do remember to treat ourselves if we want. No flash car but our biggest expense is our mortgage for a very small house but its in London quite central so there is a non monetary benefit in extra time not commuting.

You just adjust your lifestyle to your outgoings (well at least try to!) and I guess being a bit more grown up things such as mortgages and pensions become more important yawn Already trying to tighten belts as know that am going to feel the pinch even further once baby comes along and have to pay out for a nanny.

Don't get me wrong, I completely accept that we have a very high joint income. Its just we seem to have very high outgoings too what with school fees, mortgage etc etc.

I am frantically paying down the mortgage though since I'm also conscious that you never know what life is going to throw at you and whilst financially things are going well at the moment, that might not always be the case. We should be done in a few years' time.

have you guys seen this? opportunitynow.bitc.org.uk/leadingchange/project28-40

Re cake sales - I just don't send stuff in. My kids don't do any buying of cakes either as they go straight home with the childminder - if 90 parents are providing six cupcakes and 90 children are buying one each...I think my missing contribution isn't important!

The article in tonight's Evening Standard re Cheryl Sandberg is worth reading for its references to other initiatives etc. www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/why-facebook-queen-sheryl-sandberg-is-a-wonder-woman-9125611.html?origin=internalSearch

On school collections I always think how wonderful it is that I have managed to avoid that boring school gate collection and dull conversations people have there over the years. I see it as a huge benefit to have avoided all those parents. You don't have to like the parents of the children in your child's class. You can have separate friends. I would not worry about not doing school collections. Children are not at their best after a tiring day at school.

As for not feeling rich yes it's all expensive (and I've paid 5 lots of day school fees out of my salary over the years, now down to two). I think it's been worth it as there was not much else I wanted to buy and also as I preserved the career by not going part time and having not much time off to give birth I have 20 - 30 years now with children just about left home when I have the reasonably high earnings without the expenses coming up so hopefully a bit more spare money (or even a lot of spare money which will be nice).

Our children never did out of school activities in the week although they did a lot of those at their schools (private schools). Their music lessons have usually been at school too. One now has one hobby on Saturday but that's it - nothing else out of school. It makes it easier.

On the other hand, I find it useful to have friends at DS's school as it is a backup in case of childminder illness etc. I met some of the parents there when I was pregnant and a couple subsequently - but you don't need to know everyone! You can put notes in bookbags suggesting a meet up on a weekend.

I don't want to be too dispiriting, but I'd say one of the things that makes it all possible is not having more than one child.

I'm not well paid enough to be on this thread (charity sector, so the salaries even for very senior roles aren't often into six figures), but I do have a senior and demanding job with a lot of responsibility and a lot of travel, though the travel is only in the UK, and in my previous public-sector job I did earn six figures.

DD is 3 and will be our only one as it's not medically sensible for me to have another. As someone else said some way up the thread, the difficulty with the early years of keeping a full-on career going after children is the sheer exhaustion. I had six months' maternity leave and for the first three months after I went back to work I was so sleep-deprived I was literally hallucinating - I kept seeing walls bending and dark shapes scuttling out of the corner of my eye. I'm still pretty knackered now as DD is still a pretty bad sleeper, and as I'm trying to pull my weight at home as well as at work I do deal with night waking. Before anyone says do controlled crying, she's very nightmare-prone and I'm damned if I leave a child to cry when she's woken up terrified.

If I had another one, I think I'd have to take a step back at work for a while, simply because I wouldn't be mentally up to doing what I do now until I started getting enough sleep again. I've often thought since having DD that if I could change one thing about myself, it would be the amount of sleep I need. I need 7-8 hours to be a reasonable human being, and 6 is the minimum - less than that and I start falling apart.

But I don't want to discourage people - DD is at the extreme end of terrible sleepers, and lots of women can cope on very little sleep much better than I can!

Sorry, that was a long post, and I didn't add the other factor I meant to mention. At the moment I have to split myself three ways - work, DD and everything else. I'm getting everything done at work, and I think I'm giving enough time to DD, though as she gets older she makes it clear that she'd like me around more. I also manage the occasional evening with friends, trip to the theatre and so on, and I manage to keep my hair cut, although buying clothes is nigh-on impossible, and I'm doing my share of the household stuff. If I had two children demanding attention, the equations wouldn't balance any more unless I could pay for a housekeeper to take a lot of the load off me and DH, which I can't do unless I go back to private practice, which would mean working crazy hours (90 hours a week instead of the 60-70 I do now) in a less interesting role.

Everyone's experiences differ. We found the first the biggest shock and the hardest of all ( and she was the worst sleeper). Had 4 more. Very glad we did. It's lovely. It's in a sense in the UK only the rich and the very poor who can afford large families. For me having so many is one of the big pluses of being a high earning mother.

Laura + thanks for the link

Laura you sound lovely and very capable, sensible and clever and inspiring! I wish I knew someone like you in real life!

Thanks. I'm healthy and happy and like my work. I think those are two of the best things and I am lucky that that is so.

Hi novice, you mentioned having a home PA. How do you find one and how much does it cost?

Hi - thanks BusinessUnusual, I'm doing well thanks (finally feeling a bit more normal too, after months of sickness). Just been flat out busy and a lack of time to catch up with the recent thread, really enjoying reading it now. From the recent posts, sounds like school age is far harder to juggle than the baby / toddler years!

I stepped down as (part time) CFO of one of my other positions last week. Would have been so so easy to use pregnancy as an excuse and dodge real reason - Board room issues / Chairman v bad news - but kept quiet about it all and took the harder route head on. I like to think my little bit for womankind!

D day this Wednesday for telling the main job. This thread has definitely given me the confidence that I'm not being unrealistic to return quite soon, and my brain won't automatically turn to mush and I'll loose my drive. I'm very lucky, my DH is amazing and I have to admit, is much better at household chores / cleaning / organisation than me despite also working full time.

ps - nappyrat hope you have a bit more clarity on things now and the no holes barred advice was helpful, Good luck x

Good luck with telling them at work. I don't think 30 years ago my firm believed I would come back in 2 weeks (although I did) as when I got back someone else was at my desk and I had been moved into a partner's room although that first day back I worked out how we could fit 3 of us in the previous room - it was huge with a spare desk (as I didn't want to be in with him and he was grateful for the solution too).

It was fine. The only hard bit was expressing milk every few hours and I left on time which was probably easier in those days. We used to leave her with huge relief as she was a very crying difficult but lovely baby who had come 10 days early. And that period of sitting on the tube reading without any baby or toddler wanting you every second was so restful. I've just never understood people who think it's harder rather than easier to be back at work unless I suppose you work on the land digging trenches or something.

I so agree Laura! I also find the consensus that being at work is so much harder than being at home with a young baby baffling! In particular, if I am very sleep-deprived I can readily deal with the non-emotional demands of work (in a peaceful setting with a cup of coffee and the ability to sit down) but find the intense emotional and physical interaction a tiny baby demands - combined with the straightforward but relentless physical tasks - very hard indeed. But like you DS was rather high-maintenance and a poor sleeper, and also like you I love my job and have always found working both very pleasurable and largely straightforward. I suppose if you had a much 'easier' baby, and felt more quickly drained by or less satisfied with your job, it would be different. All the same, I have endless respect for SAHMs because I would find that so much harder socially and emotionally than my professional role.

In any case, I have really enjoyed this thread, lots of wise words; and especially the rec for the Valerie Grove book (that was you too I think Laura) which was incredibly interesting.

Yes I think it really depends on whether you have an "easy" baby. Not just for the obvious reason that easy babies are easier to look after, but also because if you have an easy baby you can get out and about more and do more activities, so you don't get bored.

I have a colleague who is on maternity leave at the moment - she is a lot like me and I kind of expected her to be bored stiff (as I was). However she has a very chilled out easy DS and is able to go to the gym and out to lunch and so on while he sleeps or sits in his pram. I never managed to do any of that with DD (who was a non sleeping wriggly very demanding baby). So she is finding maternity leave easier than work whereas for me it was the other way round.

Good luck Clarissa! I think at your stage the main thing is to make it clear you are coming back! No need to commit just yet as to how long you will take off. But no harm in telling them you're currently thinking shorter rather than longer.