High earning mothers

[ClarissaG]

I'm interested to start a discussion group for Mums and Mums to be who are juggling (or planning to juggle) a high flying career and motherhood. I loath to use the term 'Power Mums', but those who earn enough (£100k plus) to afford a team of help, but have the kind of pressures and working hour expectations that that level of salary brings.

I read the Mumsnet Guest blog with interest (www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_blogs/1977242-Why-is-society-so-unsupportive-of-high-achieving-power-mums) but the comments less so.

Is there scope for a supportive group for such Mums with practical ideas, experiences and thoughts rather than judgement about whether we can 'have it all'?

I am mid thirties, a VC, 12 weeks pregnant and have not yet told my fellow partners. I want it all but have no idea if that is realistic or how my future is going to pan out!

Actually what was good was he is male and was happy to admit that both on Saturday and on Sunday evening when we at least had the thing to check - again he had to go off to see to children.

Elastamum - so glad to hear positive stories of how some companies can be flexible so that their employees can have a good work life balance.

I think part of what I do can be done at home in the evening after the kid is asleep and personally I think "getting the job done" is more important than "being in the office during office hour" I'll need to convince my manager and the head of department about this in the next few years. As I said in my earlier post my team is very male dominant, there are maybe 2 men with kids but their wives are stay at home mums... Head of department is a man with no kids and so is the deputy head... Since I got back from maternity leave the head of department have come to me and said he's pleased I'm back and delivering a good job. Think I'll just need to keep the good work up so I'll have more bargaining power later!

I do think that some employers need 'training' re flexible working. Being seen in the office 24/7 doesn't make you the most valuable employee but sadly some work places think that is a marker of someone who is doing a good job. When I moved to my last role (a few years ago before kids were even thought about) I made sure I set expectations about this and my commitment etc. Now I'm pregnant it's really paid off as I can have honest conversations re what I'm planning on doing later in the pregnancy (I travel internationally a lot) and what transition I'm going it make when I come back. The company knows I'm committed, knows I'll get the job done but if I need to have a morning off or actually take leave (and not end up working it!) that the world won't fall apart because I'm not in the office.

I do need to take my on lead on this as have three days of A/L I need to take this week and I'm itching to go on my blackberry.... Have resolved only to check once a day . need to wean myself before maternity leave!

MS, I did try to find the twitter feed but don't really use twitter so only managed to see about 5 responses the next day. They read some out on the radio which were mixed. If you have devoted your next 10 years full time to housework and childcare and someone says it's boring, when you have to do it 16 hours a day, you probably don't like to hear that comment. I also said I adore children, have had a lot and love being with them for about 2 hour a day playing etc. I just like a balanced mixture of things in my life, lots of people do whether male or female. I have probably done more hours of childcare by the way than most of those working or not working on mumsnet given 5 children over 29 years. In fact for the first time in the last year I now drive them to school - the youngest two, most days which I've never done. We listen to Radio 4. teenage boys don't like to chat much early in the morning. So it is not that I want children I can pack off across the world and not see again until they are 18. It is just that I like a day which includes work and children (and time thinking and alone or hobbies when there is a chance).

Just an update... My saga continues. Monday came... And went. I emailed her today to ask for progress (in a chatty but 'this has to be done' tone because of xyz reasons...) and she told me that she'd broken down in tears with her boss due to some other thing (also related to research).

So I had a skype chat with my other author and decided we will do it ourselves. And still give her the credit as first author. But we will submit it.

I proposed this to her... And she came back with a 'this is brilliant!!!' Argh. So now, I've cleared my afternoon and will bloody get this done. Don't get me wrong, my afternoon was going to be filled with other delights like doing a review of another paper for another journal....and writing my strategic plan... But I need to get this out of the way before I go mad.

I need and .

So annoying NK! Can you at least avoid working with her ever again?

kalidasa - yes. me and the other person has agreed not to ever write with her again. Even if we do do something based on this or the other stuff, I will just get on and put her name at the end - if I need to.

Ironically, once I issued this 'plan of action', she actually went into the document (first time since just before christmas!!!) and did all the 'accept track changes' and read through the damn thing again...!! why couldn't she have at least done that for yesterday? I don't understand.

Maybe she's just scared of failure. The whole I'm not putting myself forward coz at least this way I can't fail notion.

hello ladies...
I'VE SUBMITTED IT!!!!! so, it took half a day, of which the last hour or so was the usual faffing of 'blind' copies, 'dividing the paper into title page, tables etc'.........

i'm off to have some pancakes and

Well done. Sometimes it's quicker to do things yourself in the end than use others people. Difficult balance to get right.

On the long hours discussion my older daughter was "whatsapping" us (in our family group) last night - 10.20pm at her desk and a picture of her food and might have to have gone to Prague today (not sure if she went or not). If it's occasionally you work late and very hard in my view it's fine. If it's all the time and you're junior it's not fine. it is not a good way for people to live unless they are not working too hard in the day, chatting, on line etc and get stuck in at 5 for 4 hours and they are making up for messing around all day as plenty of people do,including those who want to avoid the horrors of putting 3 small children to bed. If you're much older and my age and you like your work and you want to work long hours that's absolutely fine too of course.

Well done NK.

Well done NK!
I agree Laura. A previous colleague of mine had a reputation for doing long hours but would come in at 6pm and start chatting about general stuff. If I'm still in the office then there's a very good reason and I don't want to waste time on chit-chat. I did wonder if he was avoiding going home.

I used to work with a man (shared a room with him in fact) whose wife had been big in advertising until they had their first baby. She was obviously bored at home (I could hear one half of the calls she made to him every day). He used to go to play snooker at lunch time, sometimes not back until 3pm (I am not saying that is common in law firms, but he certainly did when work was quieter) and then at 5 she'd call to ask what time he would be home and he'd say very late as he had so much work to do - he was trying to avoid her nagging when he got home and the hassle of bed time and instead wanted to get home when the child was fast asleep. Not all men and women are like that of course. I know plenty of men who want to get home to see the children before bed.

One of my daughters was talking about that. She doesn't have children and her day will be a bit like mine - she can do some non work things, make a few calls etc and then later on she can get on with work when everyone goes home and she won't be disturbed. Harder to do that when there are children you rush home for but that's a fairly brief period of a 40 year professional life anyway.

I find my "golden time" is 8-9am. I tend to get in first, then I am in the zone when the others come in at 9:15-9:45 and start making coffee and chatting (our official start time is 09:30)

Might be interested in this www.cam.ac.uk/women-at-cambridge perhaps a uk/university based version of lean in!

Lean in, or recline? Life is about getting the right balance!

(I think "laid back" is a better word then "recline"!)

m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/wp/2014/02/25/recline-dont-lean-in-why-i-hate-sheryl-sandberg/

Hi, can I join. I don't make the £100k income bracket as I've gone part time since having DD! Pro rata it would be close.

I've been being beaten up on a nursery thread tonight and am now being told I should make random visits to check DD isn't strapped screaming in a chair. I am apparently frightening for pointing out that a 2.5 hour round trip back and forth to nursery wouldn't be feasible in a working day but this is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Heaven forbid I should actually like my job and want to keep my hand in for a few years so that in five years time I don't have to take whatever I can get work wise.

I wish I hadn't stopped weekday drinking. is not the same.

I'm a teacher so not a high earner but I am a serious professional who works hard. I hate the way some people criticize working mums. If you are happy and confident in the childcare you have chosen then that's fine. I tend to work on the assumption that most parents care about tier kids and try to make good decisions for them, not the reverse.

I actually have a really good deal as dd is at the school I teach at. I often go down to after school childcare to check in with her, check on homework then head back to my desk and get a couple of hours work done. I am doing an MA part time so once a week I check in with her then head off to college. Funny how people still comment on how I work, but still assume that dh will work and that is fine.

Macaroon - thanks for that post... Resonates a lot. I think the issue is more the whole 'we have to lean in to be taken seriously'.. Why can't we be taken seriously just as?

Little bear - I read your thread.. Oh the abuse. I tend not to stray onto those threads now. It's bad enough I get those comments in rl and of course the occasional guilt when the child won't go to nursery but then actually skips in and smiles/laughs when is greeted and embraced by her friends and teachers.

Great Cambridge thread - I know several of those women.

I had a quick look at the Cambridge women - all good (although I wasn't too keen on the one who says she "put her daughters first" by copping out of her career. Why isn't her husband putting the daughters first by taking a massive drop in earnings? Always the women.

Poor little bear. I can't go on those threads. If I post reasons children do better if mothers work full time and earn a lot it seems to upset people who have taken different choices.

kick, my children's father (teaching at a school) and who was the one of the two of us who got home first to let our nanny get home found all this female colleagues were allowed to leave on time or early but because he was male they expected him there until 6 every night . It was very unfair. He once asked for a pay rise and the head said I earned too much to justify it! Lots of sexism in people's expectations as to gender roles.

Macaroon love, love, love that article.

To me, "Lean In" translates as "accept the current male-oriented, hours-dominated, family-incompatible workplace culture, and do your damndest to fit in with it".

Whereas I think that culture is flawed, and right minded people (women AND men) should be challenging that culture.

I'm late to join but have only just seen this thread. I came back full time at 3 months from both my mat leaves- no guilt at all. Children happy and well adjusted. DH had much more flexibility in his working hours so he did pick ups, etc. When my youngest started school my DH gave up work which has worked out very well, but only because he was happy to. Now nearly 3 years on my work day has shifted so I have some time with children in morning and arrive home after bedtime but as that gets later will be able to see them then as well. Very happy to see this thread- I think a forum where we can share without fear of being told how horrible we are for leaving our children is much needed.

Disclaimer: I love Sheryl S...

Isn't the reality though it is better to lean in in order to get to the Board room table and make change from within? Unless you are able to completely set the tone of the culture yourself as CEO etc.

I do some work (comms/marketing) with an "old boys club" of sorts which does allow women in. They are looking to engage with their younger female members.

I commented that they should mention a shower is available prior to their posh events as I thought that might be appealing especially to guests who have to travel to get there.

The response was "There is a sign in the ladies". Which is fine, if you have been before and to the ladies - which most hadn't, hence my work.

I just thought it was a good metaphor for Boards full of men, simply not being able to consider possible female perspectives.

I'm with MrsM, not minipie really and anything that avoids my having to do a lot of housework and loads of childcare is brilliant - if some people want to call that patriarchy or male organised workforces that's fine, but I'd just say it was a human way to organise things to give clients what they need when they need it and ensure those very committed to work don't have to do a lot of the dull stuff at home. I have also said above that very long hours week in week out are not great. None of us have heard from my daughter since her plaintiff 10.20pm photo of her dinner at work and possible work trip abroad the next day - if that's occasional fine, if it's night after night is does not ensure you get enough sleep to work well.

Ah clubs.. I have been to most of those in London on Pall Mall etc and nearly joined one and backed out. I am not sociable which is not a gender issue, it is just personal to me.