High earning mothers

[ClarissaG]

I'm interested to start a discussion group for Mums and Mums to be who are juggling (or planning to juggle) a high flying career and motherhood. I loath to use the term 'Power Mums', but those who earn enough (£100k plus) to afford a team of help, but have the kind of pressures and working hour expectations that that level of salary brings.

I read the Mumsnet Guest blog with interest (www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_blogs/1977242-Why-is-society-so-unsupportive-of-high-achieving-power-mums) but the comments less so.

Is there scope for a supportive group for such Mums with practical ideas, experiences and thoughts rather than judgement about whether we can 'have it all'?

I am mid thirties, a VC, 12 weeks pregnant and have not yet told my fellow partners. I want it all but have no idea if that is realistic or how my future is going to pan out!

Laura in many if not most high earning jobs, long hours night after night is the norm and the expectation. Especially at junior and mid levels.

I don't agree that long hours at work = less childcare. Many of my female colleagues get home for bedtime, then log on and do more work in the evenings after DC are in bed so as to keep up with the long hours culture. For them, doing long hours isn't an alternative to more childcare, it's an alternative to relaxing with their DH and getting decent sleep!

I think female role models are massively important to more junior women. And hopefully they will have a wide range of family situations and job approaches too. Not everyone wants to be a board member but it is inspiring to see women who've achieved this, especially if they are willing to talk about how they got there and be honest about the challenges they faced.

I never felt any guilt about going back to work and it actually didn't really occur to me that I could stop working, I didn't really want to. I'm sure it would be different I I was in a minimum pay job I hate but I have a career which I love and I went back to work when dd was 3 months old.

I found it harder when dd went to school as other mums only invited the people they knew to parties etc but now I really think I have an excellent situation. I get a bit fed up that almost everything to do with school comes to me. But I am there in the building and dh is the opposite side of the city. Still, there are times I go away with the kids I teach or I go to conferences and between them dh and childcare cope fine.

The schools I work at is private so lots of dual income doctors and professor types. There is no judgement about being a working parent as most of us are (apart from the independently wealthy ones). Most employers here in the US are likely to allow more flexible working as long as the work gets done and I find it easier to be a working parent here than in the UK

And yy to role models. I think it really important that the teenagers I teach see strong female professionals every day. They all know I'm a mum and doing an MA and that I work so I like to think they see me as a successful woman.

When I was a SAHM when we first moved , dd commented that it was my job to tidy up and that she wouldn't have to work once she got married. I was so glad when I could get a job and go back to work !

My dd's also go to a private school. In dd1's class most kids have sahms of the wealthy, tennis/lunch/mani pedi variety. Dd1 doesn't get invited to many play dates and certainly misses out on quite a bit of social interaction with her classmates because most of the other mums know each of he very well from coffee mornings and aforementioned tennis club. Dd1 occasionally suffers from it and feels excluded which makes me a bit sad. In dd2's class most mothers work - and there's just not a lot going on in the way of play dates at all! And most of her classmates take the school bus to and from school (as do my dd's from an early age). Dd2 is much more well adjusted socially.

As far as I'm concerned I do miss having a social circle and I don't feel comfortable with the sahms even when they invite me, mostly I just envy their golden lives which is a rotten feeling. And since we've moved to a new city 4 years ago I haven't really made any friends.

So it's work, work, child are, and zero time for me.

It depends on the class a child is in and the other parents but I certainly remember with our first (at Haberdashers) a lot of dual career couples and she took the school coach from age 5. I never noticed a shortage of invitations for my children due to my working.

Every night I spend in is a bonus to me and every day without a meeting is too. I think whether you are sociable or not is just a personal thing and not even related to gender. There is no reason anyway why the parents of children in your child's class being people you will necessarily like or want to talk to anyway.

(I would certainly never envy a woman living off male earnings without a career. They are probably the opposite of golden for me with tarnished awful lives, but then I love my work).

This is a great thread. I run my own company (office in separate building but on home premises) and am 30 weeks with DD1. Over the 100k bracket but unfortunately thats pre tax!

When people ask when I start maternity leave and how long I will take off i respond honestly that I will continue working (all being well) until my cs then see how it goes but probably 2 weeks off full time. They look at me in horror!

It's slightly different for me as I don't intend to go back full time and will limit meetings to my own offices but do think I should manage a couple of hours a day and still be able to breast feed whilst working next door.

Plenty of people I talk to have no comprehension of working in a pressurised job where you don't walk out of the door at 5 o clock and think anything about it until you walk back in at 9am the next morning.

I know I will be far more relaxed and better for DD1 by keeping on top of things even if thats only to have a daily update meeting and be in control of whys going on!

I am not a huge socialiser as I have to do so much for work and stay away a lot. I also can think of nothing worse than weekends away I have three vouchers for 5* hotels waiting to be used and will offer them as a sales reward next month i think now inspired by this thread-- but there is no where we would rather be than home!

It's great to take inspiration from what a lot of posters have written above and I do not intend to feel one bit guilty about making arrangements that ma. Me happy and relaxed that will therefore benefit the new arrival......

you can shoot me if i am wrong post birth as the standard response is ooooh you'll feel differently once the baby arrives

Good luck with it Somerset. I returned in 2 weeks. It was fine. It worked well.No guilt. I love babies. A client (back full time this week after having twins) sent me a gorgeous picture of her two today.

I am also like you about going away.

My very kind new son in law gave me a day at a luxury spa for two (sadly not my thing, feels like a theft of my time - of course I didn't tell him and my daughter was able to use it and her sister). Rather be home.
Every week someone asks me out to a free lunch or dinner usually people connected to work - lovely kind people (Iranians from Paris last week eg) and I never want to go. Another lawyer today is off to the rugby tomorrow and I was saying (lying) lucky him, hope he enjoys it and thinking there is nothing I would like than someone stealing part of my time to be alone on a Saturday and substituting it with a social event whether rugby or otherwise - mind you this is not a working parent issue, it's just my own personality.

Anyway most surveys find happy parents make happy children. They mirror your mood so much. I've found that with our 5 more and more over the years and when I had twins 13 years after the first child I noticed it even more probably because I'd had those year of practice as a parent. If you're tired and shouting and upset so are they. If you're calm and happy so are they.

I wonder if any of you feel bored going to drinks when male colleagues talk about rugby, football or cricket? That's the joy of working in male dominant places... That's why when they ask if I want to join them at the pub I usually decline - I'd rather get stuff done ASAP and go home sooner, or do some lunch hour shopping. I actually feel that I should go and socialise more but sometimes just can't be bothered (esp when they like talking about sports that I have zero interest on )

I think my male colleagues have always been diverse enough not to really do that - my bit of my field is male dominated but not macho.

Somerset - my >100k earning is also pre-tax I think the tax is way too high in this country...

And although the government says they want to help working parents with childcare cost, the only "help" we are getting are childcare vouchers from pre-tax income, so £248 per month x 40% which is roughly £100. The nursery my son goes to charges £15xx per month. How helpful is that, really?!?

It's not just drinks where football et al get talked about. It's at the start of meetings too. It's an icebreaker I guess and easy for men to talk about.

I meant to add it is pretty dull but falls into the same chat as holidays etc. I don't think it's a macho thing. Just an easy topic for them. That doesn't sound patronising at all does it

I can usually get the conversation on to something I find interesting (and I am just about never interested in the topics most women talk about when they are with other women actually either) but I just want any socialising not to be around work so I choose not to do it and manage to gather enough work without it.

Thanks Laurabrisges! I deal a lot of aports player and have to attend sporting events. Struggle to be interested in cricket but generally keen an eye on the PL golf and rugby results over the weekend so can make the small talk. I would look at it the same as reading the newspaper, checking the shares or watching the weather report for the week ahead. I dont pretend or need to have a deep interest gut it helps to be aware of whats going on in the world!

I see all spa/beayuty treatments as aneccessary evil and go to my chosen hairdressser as i can have a full head cut and blow dry whilst working on their wi fi. They kniw i dont do chit chat or magazines and I see this as a good use of time!

Luxury for me is walking tgphe dog and riding the horses certainly not being preened or plucked but I agree with you Laura a gracious thank you is far better than trying to explain this point of view!

Apologies for typos and spelling spell check let me down quite spectacularly!

I think it would be somewhat career limiting to not have a diverse knowledge of sports. It's important to be able to converse at a personal level with clients and peers. For example, in the past rugby and cricket were never my thing but I deliberately decided to kthese days I take clients to the Six Nations and Autumn internationals and 20-20 cricket (I don't have the stamina for the Test cricket). Equally one of my rock loving male colleague took his female client to see Beyoncé this week.

That is all very wise.
I'm lucky I seem able to generate business without it but I do feign a lot of interest when I need to in sport (and indeed handbags or whatever else the client is interested in even if I am not). It is not hard to make people think you are interested in them, to flatter them and make them want you or your services. Can be quite fun.

Somerset I won't say you'll feel differently once the baby arrives but I will say it depends on what kind of baby you get. if you get an easy or perhaps even an average baby you will probably be able to do what you have in mind. but a significant minority of babies are much much harder for some reason (eg mine was premature, other reasons include reflux or colic). everything looks a bit different when you have been holding a screaming baby for several hours and have barely slept! Not saying this will happen to you - I hope it doesn't - but perhaps have a back up plan in case it does.

hi, my experience was that rushing back after DC1 was not particularly appreciated - so I took a year off after DC2, worked much better for the family and minimal difference to the organisation.

... although if you have a baby which is crying all the time as we did it was a massive relief after 2 weeks to give her that last 7.45am breastfeed and both of us leave for work, to sit on a train and read a book for 20 30 minutes, sit in an office all day, rest. It was absolutely luxurious being back at 2 weeks compared to being at home with her (lovely though she is)...

Going back early is not necessarily always the harder option although I accept it is very out of fashion at the moment and much rarer than it used to be. Women should not be criticised for either route - early or slow going back. Men rarely are, women often are if they go back quickly.

Timely post Laura- my DD is two weeks old today so I would be going back tomorrow if I followed your pattern!

My work pay full pay for 16 weeks. I think if anyone lower than partner level took less than that, everyone would think you were a bit bonkers (although I appreciate that a lot of the reasons for you going back after 2 weeks were not financial - and I see your point on those reasons).

Could I go back tomorrow? Being perfectly honest. Physically I'm not quite there yet - not fully healed and certainly not fully fit. BF has been harder second time than I remember from last time so I definitely need longer to make sure that is properly established before I could express all feeds. And emotionally? Not even close to being ready.

However, I do agree with you that the current 'trend' for taking a year is driven in part by peer pressure and fitting in with expectations. Having taken a year last time I think another year (and so soon) would set back my progression significantly. So you have definitely made me think about how long I really want to take. Thank you.

Yes, that's my concern that there is all this peer pressure that you have to take a certain time, rather than parents deciding themselves. It is peer pressure which is rarely placed on men.

i certainly always found it physically easier sitting at a desk all day than running round after a baby, toddler and 3 year old which is what we had when baby 3 arrived.

I don't understand the mental point. Why does child birth have a mental element? You don't go mad or become unable to read if you give birth surely?

However I never had a C section even with the twins so if that had been so certainly longer recovery is probably needed although even then sitting at a desk is easier than controlling 3 children under 5 alone (most women do not have maternity nurses and day nannies or even their mothers around for the first 3 months or even 6 weeks).

I am not saying there is a perfect or right amount of time though or everyone should go back in 2 weeks and I think with my 3rd I had 5 weeks off.

I do think pointless long hours are silly where workers have to work them all the time without any remission. My second daughter told me tonight her sister is going home for 2 hours each night this week to sleep and then back to work (she lives 5 minutes from work). Now that might be a b it exaggerated but even if it's 4 hours sleep it not going to get the best out of anyone even someone from our family - we keep going whatever and I think it is stoicism, physical fitness and internal mental strength as much as any brain power which means we seem to do pretty well....o may be she keeps going because of all that wonderful breast milk I fed her 29 years ago which made her fit. Either way I think too many weeks with long hours is not good for anyone. The advantage of owning (my situation) is I decide everything now and if I cannot get something done because I go to bed at 10 then unless it is a real emergency I just say no. When you are more junior you can't do that.

The working long hours and taking a short maternity leave are raising eyebrows at my work. The last few weeks have been hideous, but I'm happy to do it as I know it's just temporary (and I do have an element of some control) but at 6 months pregnant I'm getting looks like I'm mad! Also letting people know that I'm only planning to be off 4 months is making many of the men I work with perplexed, esp. those with wives at home. It's just a foreign concept that a) I may be the main earner I need to go back anyway and b) I at the moment don't really want to be a SAHM as I like what I do.