Does anyone else find working when you've got kids REALLY hard?

[dollybird]

I have been back at work three days a week for two years now since my 2nd child was born, and I am finding it harder and harder to cope with juggling everything. This is partly as the job has changed from one I loved to one I put up with, but mostly because I find it such a nightmare getting the kids ready for nursery in the morning and when I pick them up in the evening they are so hyper and I am tired etc - I just hate it.Every week I wish I could give up work (can't afford to), but by Sunday I am usually glad of a break. Does it ever get any easier?

I work part time and i find both jobs demanding and often feel that i never feel I am doing justice to either.

Kep hoping DH will gain huge pay rise and say no dear you be a sahm, which has always been my dream.

I used to work full time and now work from home, I felt like I was neither a particularly good mother or worker as I was far too overstretched not to mention the guilt! Working from home is fantastic although abit scary at first as I set up my own business! It's still a juggle but now I feel like its skittles as opposed to fire!

If part time is the worst of all worlds, could you give up completely and try staying at home with the kids? How old are they, would they be at (free) nursery in the mornings to give you some time to do things for yourself?

If it didn;t work out you could try a full time job again, somewhere different?

And get into an exercise regime at any price, it's a mood enhancer!

I work fulltie in a stressful software sales job. It pays very well, even better if I actually sell some of the goddam stuff, and it has meant our standard of living has been excellent since I've had it. Also i work from home predominantly when i am not in front of customers and so have lots of flexibility.

HOWEVER - despite all of that, i am due my second in July and i am leaving work for a couple of years, and although I have alot of trepridation about being at home with two small children and how I will cope, I cannot wait to leave the corporate world of stress behind. I don't care anymore who buys my rubbish, I don't care about forecasting deals, pipelines, solution selling, procurement negotiation yadayadayada. We have saved some money so we can live reasonably comfortably for a couple of years (by going without other things for the last few years in prep) and then I might venture into the world of work once more, but to be quite honest it doesn't matter how helpful your partner is if the kids are sick it's you that has to juggle, it's mum that packs the bags, does the morning routine, and generally has all the stress and I can't deal with that and a job anymore.

I work part-time for the simple reason that otherwise the kids would be in nursery and after school club all the time as my dh works long hours but I do feel for you majorstress, it is disproportionate the amount you do when you work part-time and sometimes I think it is actually easier for yourself if you work full-time because then you can afford to have a cleaner, and help in the home etc. Sometimes I don't feel as if I do anything well because I simply do not have the time to put in on the workfront, being self-employed and then face an uphill struggle at home to keep on top of things there. Having spoken to a lot of part-time mums this does seem fairly common. Therefore I can understand people working full-time. I am just pulled because my ds not doing well in literacy at school and needs a lot of extra help. DD is fine at nursery. TBH just looking at it as a short-term obstacle that needs to be got through. Thank god we have dishwashers and tumble-dryers. Wish kids would have less homework. I am actually trying to set up a networking group for working parents in Brum as some men I know are in the same category and it would be a way to generate more business in hours that suit, i.e. after the drop off instead of breakfast or evening networking sessions that are easy if you have no kids. Could be worse though my mum used to do the night shift at a factory and then look after us during the day while Dad worked. I really don't know how she coped.

After DS1 was born, I went back full tme and found it difficult after a couple of months - demanding job, DH away 2 or 3 days a week and the feeling of not doing my job properly (All my colleagues were all doing my longer hours than me when I had to go collect DS from nursery).
After DS2 was born wanted to work PT but was turned down and made redundant instead ....
The way that I look at it now is :
1- I HAVE to work for my own sanity, self esteem and enjoyement of life. Also to be able to enjoy the time that I spend with DS1 & 2. So I have decided to start my own business and work part time 3 days a week.
2- I have become extremely organised. eg I prepare the menu for the week so that I don't have to think what to prepare for the evening meals but I also have a plan for the week for the house cores. That way when I have finish my share for the day - Never after 9.00 AM - I can enjoy my time with DS1&2 without worrying of "what I should be doing instead".
3- I have learned that I need to tell DH what kind of help I need from him. Otherwise he doesn't seem to pick up what is not going well. Especially, he stopped doing a lot of thing in the house since DS2 was born.
4- We also plan our we so that he can get a day of doing what he likes and the same for me another we. That way we both get som "me" time and get to spend some family time too.
5- I have choosen my nursey & CM with great care. That way I know that they both enjoy their time out of the house and that's one thing less to worry about. It is a little bit more expensive but worth it.
That way I can enjoy my work AND my time with the children. It is sometimes hard work but I think that whatever you decide to do there will have some downsides to it. It is just what is working best for me - at the moment.

I worked full time before I had ds.
I now work 16 hours a week. My firm have been very good and flexible. My Manager said 'tell me which hours you want to do'

I work from 6am to 9am for 3 days of the week and 8am to 1pm for 1 day of the week. This fits perfectly with dh hours as he is on flexi-hours anyway.
I do have 'tired' days though, as I have to be up so early and I walk 2 miles to work as the parking is so expensive and there are no buses at that time in the morning.

We have a good system up and running now, I go to work for 6am, dh meets me from work in the car at 9am, I drive home!

fsmail - are you me? I'm self employed part time as well ans everything you say sounds exactly how I feel. My tip is outsource everything you can in terms of domestic chores - online shopping; hire a cleaner who'll do the ironing too (this has made such a difference to us for £20 a week)- that way on your days off you can actually enjoy time with your kids rather than worry about getting the shopping or the hoovering done.

Good luck with your networking club and let me know when you set it up - I'm only 15 miles from Brum!

Interesting to see this has made the home page. Made it to exercise two days running, by blowing off "work at home" day, will go in to work this evening and all day Sunday instead. Working on attitude, bit by bit. But I cannot tell you how delighted I am that dd1 is being packed off to MIL tomorrow for whole week of halfterm. Wish she could just stay there for good. Dreading what to do with dd2 though (granny doesn't want her), work nursery only has the usual Mon and Tues available, and the neighborhood nursery which only runs in the mornings,has suddenly started having halfterms too. Wish I never got involved with that place, the owner guilt-tripped me into this situation-and true I let her-but really, other people forcing their opinions on people who are vulnerable is just wrong. If I had known how difficult it was to get a decent au pair or nanny of course dd2 would still be in my work nursery fulltime, dd1 would just have had to cope with afterschool club every day (assuming THEY had any spaces-why is there so little bloody provision!!!), and I would not hate them all the time (just some of the time) and be a failure and disappointment to all at every turn (just most of the time). Wondered if I could get them into foster care, by confessing my true feelings to some official?

I DID book a visit to a play with dd2. That leaves only 71 hours I have to look after her every whim wth no distraction.

And why do we have to book every blessed thing? Does anyone remember just GOING to the cinema, or whatever, without planning days in advance, in competition with hordes of others? It took 4 goes to find a performance not booked out, over a week ahead, of a 40 minute kids play in the boonies, and even then they only had 2 seats together so I couldn't make yet another attempt to make friends by inviting another kid and mummy to come along.

I returned to work when my twin sons were 7 months old. People kept telling me that I would not want to leave them with a carer because I would miss them. Well, by the time they were 6 months, I felt that if I did not work, I would end up suffering from depression. My DH and I live over 150 miles away from our respective families and so during the day, I was isolated because we do not have any friends in the area. I tried toddler groups but did not enjoy the stress of getting two babies ready in the morning. I was always late, despite being a very organised person. Invariably, one of the babies would be sick or need a nappy change etc. Consequently, I gave up on the club.

I now work 24 hours a week over 3 days and I am so happy. The boys have thrived in their nursery, I enjoy the destraction of my technical work, I enjoy the 4 days that I am at home with them and because I have a domestically trained DH, the household chores are divided between us and so we never ever feel stress about keeping on top of everything. In fact, some days, I feel that I have to find something to do. On my days off, I cook our own ready meals for the days when we are working and the twins always eat fresh home cooked food.

I think it is easy now because they are at nursery (they are nearly 2 years old) but I know that when they start school, it will be more difficult and I am not looking forward to that, particularly with the late and early finishes as well as the school holidays. DH is not keen on using a childminder to take them to school but if we do not use that route, I don't know what we will do if the school does not have a breakfast club. I want to pick them up from school so I would have to go work early and leave early as well as work my 24 hours over 4 days.

Majorstress how old is DD2? Maybe we could try to give you some suggestions? Can you tell us her strengths and interests, there must be some? (Or is she a baby?) Is there a creche at your gym?

She's just turned 3. She had has many strengths-physical, determination and strop-wise, weighs over 37 pounds and appears to be over 4. I am not allowed to sing, or speak to anyone else when she is with me. My job is to listen. She is bright and talks incessantly. She hates going anywhere at all-just wants to stay wherever she is at the moment and I have a back injury and cannot force or carry her, so have to persuade her. An especial bugbear is the car and seat and buckle-won't get in, can't do buckle herself so I have to painfully lean in, then on arrival she bloody won't get out. I have resorted to bribery but it doesn't always work. This has been going on for many months. There is nothing at all within walking distance. And I just can't be bothered anymore, if she doesn't want to go out, why should we?. The gym creche might be possible, I should try to book that I guess, though it is a 2 hr max and already booked up pretty much by regulars. She is reasonably easy to amuse at home compared to the older one, who is an approval seeker and resents dd2, so it will be a relief to be shot of dd1. I'm just sick of sitting at home effectively by myself, nodding off as I reread another boring story. There are some things I would do with her like go swimming or to the park (she will only go on the swings, of course involving lifting for me, and no exercise for HER!) if it wasn't so painful for me, I always seem to end up lifting her and struggling with clothes etc. No one wants to have her round, and at the moment I can't face having another kid dropped around here (all the ones we know have other sibs so wouldn't hang around to chat, or would want to dump them on me too) so I don't feel I have the moral leverage to ask for a swap. Also my occasional offers and arrangements are usually turned down, or the nice ones promptly move away-I've kind of given up, everyone else is always booked up-or maybe they feel like me and can't be botherred either!

I had such an unrealistic idea of motherhood. I don't know how my mum survived at all, though only having one was probably helpful.

Though my mum was shy too, she had a lot more mummy friends-few of them worked either as was more the norm back then. People were a lot more friendly, and were not so busy doing other things, I am sure. There wasn't so much to do, but kids were left to get on with it and play without you having to hover all the time, you weren't considered rotten for not devoting every waking minute to standing over them while they computed or did endless repetitive homework age 5, and the mums could talk and socialise more. Well, that was the 60s, US, and the weather was better and the people more friendly let's face it, even though she and many of her friends were Brits, it wasn't a large city full of people struggling to be RICH RICH RICH. Times have changed.

Did have a little chat with DH-who is supposed to be home now BTW so I can go to work, but I am very unsurprised that he isn't. He said I should have TOLD him to clean the house last Tuesday when I went out for 1.5 hours in the evening (he lay on sofa watching tv, and I came back and cleaned up the evening meal, encrusted kitchen and laundry-I didn't complain, as it is pointless, and part of my meditation lesson was to deal with my own sh*t first and don't be so selfish and self-centred!). Oh, SILLY ME, my constant reminders as I go out the door are obviously classed as nagging, and do not register. Now, he used to share the chores too until dd2 came along. Has he turned into a complete idiot, who has to be told that dirty dishes, clothes and tables need to be dealt with, and food put away before it spoils? How come he could do it off his own bat a few years ago? He has a first and a PhD in science, and has heard of E. coli. And he is in charge of 20 people at work.

Majorstress,

I think you probably need to take your relationship to an external body like Relate, frankly, if things have reached this point.

I am sorry you're feeling this way about your daughters.

I think if I do something like go to Relate it will precipitate a rapid breakup, (unless I can go secretly, and I don't have any time to myself so coudln;t anyway) as he will be forced to admit I will never be happy here with them, and I have heard it is better for the kids to stay together, at least at this age, since there is no issue of abuse or addiction. We don't even row as in raised voices, and never did. Maybe I will plan it for the future anyway, because I think my feelings are irreversible at this stage. Unless anyone has found to the contrary, thought it seems I am the only one on the planet who does not love my family, at all, ever, for years now, and prefers to work and would rather never see them at all. But that's ok, because everyone is different. So, count your blessings, if you have got the right fit for YOU ATM!

I am also very sorry you feel that way about your daughters, because they only get one stab at a happy childhood! I agree with motherinferior, perhaps someone external needs to be involved at this point just to help you thrash out between you a routine or way of relating to eachother that will enable you not to feel so negative. I'm worried that if you go on the way you are, you will simply be taking steps further down a spiral that takes you too far down to be able to get back to a happy life together.

I am seriously convinced that you should take your own advice and talk to someone about how you feel about your daughters. Feeling like this, your interaction with them must be negative and this has to impact on their sense of self worth.

Part of being a mum is gaining responsibilities to our children that cannot be shirked. You should not let things go on like this, you MUST ask for help and support so that your children don't become adversely affected by your obviously quite deep seated depression about being a mum.

Hope I haven't been to straight here but I think your children deserve that you at least try to feel a bit better about them. And you deserve to feel a bit better about them - parenthood must be such a drag if you don't feel the rewards, you deserve the rewards because you are doing the work!

Well I say the appropriate confidence-building words and go through the motions with the children, and try to foster lots of other relationships for them. They seem quite happy and contented. Can I be forced to feel love for the kids or DH by a counsellor, or drugs? Spending more time with kids has only made matters worse for me inside my own head, but I don't yell, hit or otherwise take it out on them. In fact I think I am actually more patient for having released my unrealistic expectations of them and for enjoying their company. I just hate this age, and having babies was thoroughly rotten too, with mainly terrible memories, and everyone tells me it just gets worse and worse. Frankly, I don't think kids give a rats ass if mum is depressed, surely many are, as long as she is there and does the job basically. Am I the only one who hates being a mum then, and attempts at forcing me to "enjoy" it (either by my own will, people or society in general) makes me resent the kids?

What about all these people who split once the kids grow up? Surely some of them felt pretty uninspired for quite a long time leading up to the divorce? And preserving their economic viabiltiy so they don't die in poverty might have been at the back of some of their minds?

I hope you don't mind me butting in, majorstress, but you sound so unhappy.

I just wondered if you had any idea (you don't have to say if you don't want to) where your negative perceptions of yourself and your place in this world are coming from--have they been with you since childhood, for example? Is your present-day relationship with your partner and your children reflecting patterns of relating that happened in your own childhood, in your own relationship with the adults in your life? Do you know that 'kids don't give a rat's ass if mum is depressed' from personal experience, for example?

In my own case (depressed father and mother on valium) I can say with utter certainty that yes, I was totally aware that mum and dad were just going through the motions. They didn't seek help. And I was one VERY unhappy daughter.

I know that you say you have had counselling but there is a big difference between a few sessions of counselling and in-depth psychotherapy, dealing with attachment issues. I am saying this because I have been therenot with the same issues as you, as I didn't have children when I sought helpbut I think you need to talk to a professional. And it doesn't have to be expensive--check this out. CAPP website

Good luck and keep posting

majorstress - what do you want to do with your life? What do you actually want your day to day life to be like?

Why not take steps to make your life the way you want it to be? If this involves leaving your family, why not leave?

"Nothing at all within walking distance" - I have in the past taken preschoolers along the canal, to a graveyard and to look at roadworks, all of which have interested them, just to go somewhere different within walking distance. I have given them lists of things to find (leaf, number6, dog poo!) so they have a purpose. I have walked along holding an imaginary lead while they pretended to be a dog

This is not about what is around you it is about how you feel. The other posters may well be right that you need professional help but I am sure I speak for others when I say that we on MN will try to help too and maybe posting will help you a litte.

Could you just change one thing at a time - maybe book a place in the creche for the first date you can get. Surely 2 hours in the gym is enough for anyone and you have already made a start on regular exercise.

Take care, whatever you do.

Blimey! Didn't think my post would make the home page!

I should add that I also sometimes find being at home just as hard as working, although that may be to do with only having two days to do stuff rather than five. Have actually had a couple of better days at work this week, and that seemed to have an effect on me when I picked ds and dd up from nursery ie I wasn't stressed so they responded better. Have to admit I'm not the most inspiring mum, and don't do much 'interesting' stuff with my kids. They seem fairly happy with each other's company as they're so close in age (15m age gap). I don't really like taking them out much.

Also, I do have a supportive Dh - he is at home with the kids on Mondays and is very organised/clean etc. He always makes dinner on Tues/Weds when we've both been at work. I still do all the 'once a week' housework on Thurs/Fri as there's always loads of other jobs to do at the weekend ie garden/decorating etc which he does. He always will take kids out in the garden with him though. I dread to think how I'd feel if he didn't help out.

Majorstress - I really feel for you. Will your dd fit on a booster seat in the care now she is 3? My ds has just gone onto one of these and it is sooo much easier. Also,does she go one 'big' swings (not the baby ones). these are much easier to put them on and off. My dd who is nearly 2 1/2 has gone on big swings since last summer.

Sorry for really long post!

I am a full time working mum (I have a 6yr old ds and a 5yr old dd), and I have never wanted to be a SAHM. I managed 6mths with ds, and although I don't think I was depressed, I certainly was very down when the childcare arrangements that I thought I had fixed up fell through, and I had to organise new ones before I could get back to work again. And in those days I had a pretty dire job, which only just covered my childcare costs! With dd I took just 3mths off, and I have worked full time ever since. I now have a job which I would regard as the centre of my life, especially as my relationship with dh gradually has fallen apart. I think that working part time is incredibly difficult. It seems to me from looking at friends in this situation that they have all the stress of working, and all the stress of running the home too. I have always taken the view that the children will have more fun and be happier if they spend their time with someone who genuinely wants to be with them, and loves children and doing things with children. I do enjoy spending time with my two, but find it exhausting, and to be honest, often boring. If I had all the money in the world to do exciting things all the time this might not be so, but I would hate to be dependant on someone else. Also I really enjoy the job/carre that I have now, hope that it brings some benefit (I work for the NHS) and have many friends there. Every now and then I get attacks of the "terrible mother blues", but hey, if I was a dad no one would be saying anything, so why beat myself up? The only thing that I would say is that it is really worth working out what it is about spending time with your children that makes you feel bad. For me it was about dependency, so I hated the baby years, and would never have babies again. But as they get more interactive and interesting I really enjoy spending time with them, and we can relate on a much more equal footing, and I can introduce them to things I like to do. The other major advantage for me is that my two (on the whole) play a lot with each other (fight too) so that it is less intense spending time with them, and I can have some headspace too. So I say that it does get much better as they get older! In fact I have even toyed with the idea of term time working in the future. It does sound like for you being at home is not a good place. I think that you need to stop just feeling terrible, and try and plan for a better future. Work out what makes you feel worst, and try to avoid it, try and figure out what you enjoy, and do more of it. Think about what you like to do with your girls (maybe different things with each of them) and try and make sure every now and then that you do that. You may discover that you can have a nice time with them every now and then. With your back I think that you need to try and get your dd2 to do things independantly a bit. I broke my arm about two years ago, and lost a lot of strength after 10 weeks in a sling, and they did learn that Mummy could not do half the things they wanted me to do, and they did adapt. Finally good childcare is absolutely worth the cost, we have had a day nanny for most of the time (except when dh was a SAHD), and it has been great. In the first few years it was very expensive (much less so with two, though) but I figured that it would pay off long term, and the high cost isn't for that long. I have also noticed that with over supply nanny costs have come down a lot, so it may be worth looking again. Sorry - long post! But good luck! Not everyone is cut out to be a great all-the-time-mum, and it is not a judge of you as a person. It may be that you will be a fantastic mum to teenagers, but not to toddlers.