Does anyone else find working when you've got kids REALLY hard?

[dollybird]

I have been back at work three days a week for two years now since my 2nd child was born, and I am finding it harder and harder to cope with juggling everything. This is partly as the job has changed from one I loved to one I put up with, but mostly because I find it such a nightmare getting the kids ready for nursery in the morning and when I pick them up in the evening they are so hyper and I am tired etc - I just hate it.Every week I wish I could give up work (can't afford to), but by Sunday I am usually glad of a break. Does it ever get any easier?

HI, thanks uwila and and blushoes. RANT COMING: I am committed now to 2 years as they have finally hired someone to take the time (and money) left from my salary reduction on a 2 year contract. The HR people and others at work hijacked the job description and I think the new person won't be doing much for me directly, and I am worried that as I am only in the place 2 days a week (work at home one day a week in theory), I won't have much say, that's how it has been so far. I couldn't afford a nanny when I was fulltime and the stress of even trying to find a babysitter gives me the shakes ATM. WE cna;t bear to have anyone living in ever again and have dismantled the aupairs bedroom. I still have strong flashbacks of how much I hated her, just being stuck at home endlessly waiting for my next kid-pickup chore reminds me constantly of how much I hate this house, neighborhood, marriage, health, and situation. The last 2 "carers" have been real duds and the kids hate having anyone new no matter what they are like, and are really rude. They are 5.5 and 3, in school and a complex arrangement of 2 nurseries. They whine and complain 24/7 at me, I can do whatever I like from exuding Zen-like calm outwardly for days on end, to screaming my head off once a month (PMT gets the better of me), they just whinge on and on, if I say black then I get white, anything to wind me up. If one more person tells me how lovely, pretty and well-behaved they are I will kill them. They aren't to me, they are 2 millstones. I should have been a man, then this would be a normal attitude.

it wouldn't be normal for a man majorstress.

I agree with batters, I really think you need some help and that you may be quite depressed.

Oh Majorstress, what a nightmare and what an awful way to feel on an ongoing basis. I am vaguely nervous typing this, because I don't want to offend you on top of everything else - but do you think you could be depressed?
When I was depressed I found my children like lead weights around my neck, dragging me down into the depths of misery & chaos, but of course it wasn't them, it was me. Just a thought.

majorstress you really need some help if you really do feel like that poor you

Hi majorstress, sorry you are having a hard time. It sounds like you feel trapped in a situation that you cannot control and that you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. I don't presume to understand what you are going through but I do have some experience about the hating everyone and everything - that was during dd's baby days when I felt completely trapped at home and overwhelmed by her health problems and strident temperament. You do need support - you should not have to do this alone or feel this alone. Is there anyone you can call on? Dh? Mum? I drafted my mother in to live with us - couldn't do it now but it served its purpose until me and dd were back on our feet.

majorstress, you poor thing. It's normal to have fleeting moments of feeling how you do (well, normal for me...) but not to feel like that a lot of the time.
I didn't see the other thread alluded to by enid but I hope you can get some help in RL - your situation sounds dire
dollybird, in answer to your op, it gets different IME, not easier or harder. As immune systems improve you get away from the broken nights and emergency leave for poorly toddlers; children thrive on routine and if you are lucky enough to achieve a consistent daycare arrangement I don't think a longer day is damaging to a child's development, from my own experience. I put vegging time at home first for the children whenever possible, as they don't get much of that during the week. Ds does not take part in the welter of after-school activities that his SAHP-family classmates do, and we structure our weekends and free time around the children. That does mean we put our own needs bottom of the pile, tbh. I cope with this better than dh does.

Majorstress, I am quite sure you have already asked on MN about your work situation, and I apologise in this case, but have you talked to someone like ClerkKent (who is lovely, I've known him for years) about work?

I agree; flashes like that are, sadly, part of many a parent's experience (I found myself screaming at DP a few months ago in the middle of the night "they're parasites, I just can't stand them, they'll be awake and all over me in a few hours, I can't bear it") but if it's all the time, it is worth looking for some of the help that is out there. Please CAT me if you would like - I wrote a piece about my own experience of depression and about some of the options out there, which might be a useful thing to start from.

I know I am depressed. I have suffered on and off with diagnosed mild clinical depression for many years. I always managed to function externally, i.e. went to school or my job on time, did it well, etc, no one noticed except me except when I threw the odd tantrum. I already have had countless hours of counselling, GPs over the years, including prior to kids, and ADs from time to time. I am on ADs now and I guess that is why I am still on the planet. But this attitude has really moved in to stay-I know mumsnet is not the place to say I hate being a mum. But I know I'm not the only one, it can happen. As you might guess I also don't have anyone close to me anymore to speak to in person, enough to admit the full extent of my unhappiness-my DH was my closest friend until we had the kids. My parents are abroad and were never very close. Becoming a mother has hugely increased my isolation as I entered my 40s, which I now find is a time when you lose all your friends and hope for the future anyway. If you weren't great at making friends before, you can forget it at this stage. I know it is only a temporary situation being trapped by small children, but what won't go away is the huge mistake of having them in the first place.

OK, I'll stick my neck out: I don't think your ADs are necessarily doing the trick. I also think - actually I know from experience - that MN is a good place to say that you hate being a mum at the moment; and I'm the same age as you, by the way, and don't think I've had the same experience with friendships or hope for the future (I'm a truly gloomy bugger a lot of the time, and I get very isolated as I work from home, but things seem to have turned around a lot in the past year).

They won't go away. It is tough, and it may be that for you having children took your life in a direction that wasn't as happy as it would have been without them. I think, however, that your situation is capable of some improvement and, I hope, even some enjoyment in the end.

majorstress, can you say where you live? I felt a lot more trapped by it all before I started meeting some other WOTH Mners for coffee etc. Just commiserating with each other on life's lows and enjoying a laugh with similarly placed and aged women can help IMO.

"I know mumsnet is not the place to say I hate being a mum"

You're wrong Majorstress. This is exactly the place to say it. It's anonymous, it's safe and there are legions of mothers who will have thought that at some point, however fleetingly. And even if they haven't, they will have experienced enough of the stress of motherhood to empathise with you. And those who don't, you can ignore.

The fact that the combination of counselling and ADs hasn't 'cured' your depression is a cause for frustration and sadness, but I don't think it's a cause for hopelessness. Not at least until you have been given more and better psychiatric treatment. You deserve it and your children need it.

And I agree with MI (I always do). It may well help to hook up with other straight-talking and honest mothers in their early 40s who are also loving and struggling with their children, life and the meaning of it!

You sound overwhelmed MS. How long have you been back on the ADs, long enough for them to kick in? Perhaps you need a higher dose, as you still sound depressed from what you describe.
Could you get away for a day or a weekend?

I changed my name - not because I'm embarrassed by how I once felt but because I don't want dh reading this.

Majorstress - I understand how you are feeling. I went through a period where although I know I still loved my children, I felt my life had changed so much for the worse that I completely regretted having them. I remember reading a story in the paper about how a mum had abandoned her children and left them with her husband and everyone was outraged - I remember thinking, 'I can so understand how she feels'.

I met another mother at school the other day who was clearly depressed. She told me she had been advised to work full time (she was working part time already) because she could not handle being at home with the kids. I told her she should do it and I think she was quite surprised - for some reason we expect other women not to be tolerant of the fact that we can't manage yet more sympathy is given to men in the same situation.

If you feel you need to work full time then do it. It sounds like you feel you cannot control anything in your life at the moment and maybe, you need to focus on just one thing (work) at a time. 5 and 3 is a difficult age - they are at their prime whining and whinging ways - they are at the age where they are still learning what they can and can't get away with and are very good at spotting when you let your defences down!

I think uwila is also right - a good childcare situation will make all the difference to the way you are feeling at the moment.

Sorry I can't be more help - I hope you start feeling better soon.

Majorstress, I am thinking of you, hate to hear of ayone struggling as much as you obviously are. Everyone's right, this is the place to say it all as only mums know how hard it is being a mum!

I have to add my voice to the others, it sounds that your AD's are not helping to the extent they should be. If you feel this way all the time, then they can't be right. Perhaps your Dr. might have other approaches on offer if you re-approach him about this. Know you've had counselling before but I still think it's worth pursuing - it's a shame to waste more days of life feeling this way!

You say it was a dreadful mistake having kids - you wish they would go away; do you get enough time to yourself? I know you work but that's hardly time just for you, though it is a break from home! Do you get anytimes evenings or weekends to pursue things that are just YOU and not about being a mum? Being a mum is the most draining job on earth and we can't do it well unless we get some positive feeling from others, or other things in our life.

I'd say perhaps try to look at your relationship with your dh first, before anything - because if you can support eachother and give eachother time out, etc, then life will be doubly hard.

all this my humble opinion of course, feel free to ignore! Just wanted to offer support really.

obviously meant to say at the end of previous post "if you CAN'T support eachother then life will be double hard" sorry!

I never wanted to work PT, but DH pleaded with me, as the arrangements were so difficult and expensive that I wasn't bringing enough cash in to make it worthwhile. I live in London, and the nurseries I can use either don't cover a full day including commute time, or don't have any extra days and waiting list to about 2020. Childminders in the area are rare and won't pick up from the school AND the nursery, so I'd have to ahve 2 different ones, and with 2 are too dear for what I earn, like a proper nanny would also be. My au pair and nanny experiences were the final nail in the coffin and gave DH the leverage to make me negotiate my contract down which is now set in stone for 2 years. I hoped I would get used to it, but I haven't yet. The ADs have helped slightly but my thoughts that I would like to leave my family are still very present and seem pretty logical.

so even if you decided you wanted to do FT, you couldn't because of your contract?

the only other feasible childcare option for FT working (other than au pair but that sounds like it hasn't worked for you) would be nannyshare - is that possible in your area?

sorry to hear about dh - doesn't sound like he's been very flexible

I've been made redundant recently and have about 2 wks left at work. It's really given me the kick up the backside I needed to change things. I was deeply unhappy at work (3 days a week) and frustrated and knackered at home (2DS 3&4yrs) I'm about to start taking full responsibility for my home and my children. The logistical nightmare of sorting out childcare is coming to an end - as is the enormous cost and hopefully that feeling of being utterly out of control. We're having to really pull our belts in, but I see that as a challange I'm determined to make work. I found trying to be everything to everyone profoundly depressing - even though my job is enjoyable. Majorstress, I agree with the point made elsewhere that focussing on one area of your life could help. Are you making enough money after childcare to make work worthwhile? I have made many interesting, intelligent, fun friends through the children. When you're never available to take part in activities other than work, it is indeed difficult to make new friends. Life's too short for you to feel this way for much longer. You will find a way out of it and Mumsnet is a great place to find the support you need.

That's right fox, I can't go back to full time for 2 years from March-I made my bed by asking to go part time, and they couldn't say no as it is the new policy, but I know that the boss is disgusted with me. He could easily ease me out if he wanted to. I wouldn't mind if I actually chose this, but I most certainly did not. DH has decided to go all out for a promotion as I seem to be on a downward spiral career wise, so that leaves me stuck at home in the evenings too, so that he can work, be stuck on tubes, or if he does come home, eat and go out to the gym so he doesn't have a heart attack.

Majorstress,
You can come out with me in the real world and we can talk in person whenever you want. I think your DH needs alos to dig into the world of chilcare obligations and career scarifice.

If my DH insisted I give up my career (or reduce it in any way) in favour of his, he'd have one very bent ear. But, of course he knows how important my career is and wouldn't make this suggestion.

You need to whatever is necessary for YOU to be happy. And if your DH needs to make some career sacrifices for this to happen, then he should perhaps be open to considering this possibility.

Please please, decide what will make YOU happy.

Majorstress, forgive me if I am being rude, but I think your husband is being totally out of order. I would be very angry if my partner first put pressure on me to change my working hours (I still remember the utter relief I felt on my first day back from my first maternity leave) and then decided that my career was 'on a downward spiral' and managed therefore to get out of what looks to me like most of the childcare and child-related logistics. (I speak as someone engaged in daily battles over this with my own partner!)

I get the impression you are being backed into a corner here. No wonder you feel powerless and that the only way out is to walk. I do think it is probably possible to redress the balance, though.

"MI and Uwila in total agreement shock horror!"

indeed but that is one of the many special things about Mn...