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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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18
Whaeanui · 14/04/2023 09:45

Our local hospital needed renovating. That renovation and expansion was done under Blair through a PFI deal. The cost of the renovation was £70 million. By the time we have finished paying for it, it will have cost us £350 million. This is why our local health service is nearly on its knees.

I wanted to highlight this and thanks to @ColdMeg for pointing out something important people forget or don’t know about

Whaeanui · 14/04/2023 09:46

Thanks @EmotionalSupportHyena for that link which I’ve saved. Not enough people talk about this! This is not the same Labour Party as the 1970’s!

Sharkyto · 14/04/2023 09:48

While all the poor women get closer to death and poverty under Tory rule, they can rejoice that atleast they know she doesn’t have a penis, that makes it all ok! 🤔

beguilingeyes · 14/04/2023 09:50

So sod the economy, the NHS, public services, social care as long as Rishi says something you like...you know he's Prime Minister and can take action on these issues?
I don't believe a word that comes out of these people's mouths until it actually happens.
This is the man who pretended to own a Kia.

KnickerlessParsons · 14/04/2023 09:50

I'd like an acknowledgement too that some men don't have penises. I'm not talking about transmen, I mean actual men who have had it chopped off. These men should not be in (eg) women's sport either.

EmotionalSupportHyena · 14/04/2023 09:51

Sharkyto · 14/04/2023 09:48

While all the poor women get closer to death and poverty under Tory rule, they can rejoice that atleast they know she doesn’t have a penis, that makes it all ok! 🤔

We’d certainly not want her to be raped in a homeless shelter.

HagoftheNorth · 14/04/2023 09:51

Roy yes, I agree we need significant gov action to drive change in schools. Our school is good in this area. I have friends with kids at schools which are awful. A poster here described how her daughter didn’t dare detransition at school.

if voting tory means that kids don’t get socially transitioned at school and therefore don’t end up with pharma and medical ‘treatment’ then that Carrie’s quite a lot of weight with me. I do want to see the action

Skyellaskerry · 14/04/2023 09:52

Lifetime Labour supporter but currently politically homeless because of this as I could never vote Tory.

Where we are today has happened on their watch. For 12 years. They allowed it to develop in our public institutions to lead to where we are now. Taking responsibility for this are they??

And now this seems the only thing that Tories know the overall public is on their side on and they can use against Labour, and Starmer and Labour are not listening and hearing.

noblegiraffe · 14/04/2023 09:53

HagoftheNorth · 14/04/2023 09:44

Giraffe some of those examples aren’t under our Tory gov - woman in hospital was Scotland - SNP jurisdiction; woman with broken eye socket was in NZ, which is further down the GI road than we are in the UK. Look at what’s happening in Canada. Never saying the tories have been good, but on this issue, they have been demonstrably better than labour goes elsewhere. Sunak’ s position on this is acceptable to me, I believe he will try to make things better. Starmer’s is not.

A woman, in England was murdered by a police officer, and peaceful women were arrested and manhandled by the police at the vigil held for her.

Women in England have been put in cells for things that they have posted on the internet.

And the state of the Met. The rape statistics.

But yeah, vote Tory to protect women, because they've said something you agree with. Hmm

EmotionalSupportHyena · 14/04/2023 09:54

beguilingeyes · 14/04/2023 09:50

So sod the economy, the NHS, public services, social care as long as Rishi says something you like...you know he's Prime Minister and can take action on these issues?
I don't believe a word that comes out of these people's mouths until it actually happens.
This is the man who pretended to own a Kia.

Do you remember Labour or are you living in a fantasy land where Labour are the good guys and it’s only the stories who can’t be trusted?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/pfi-banks-barclays-hsbc-rbs-tony-blair-gordon-brown-carillion-capita-financial-crash-a8202661.html

The great PFI heist: How big banks launched the takeover of UK plc

PFI debt for the British taxpayer is more than £300bn for infrastructure projects, with a value of £54.7bn. To put it into perspective, the PFI debt is four times the size of the budget deficit used to justify austerity

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/pfi-banks-barclays-hsbc-rbs-tony-blair-gordon-brown-carillion-capita-financial-crash-a8202661.html?amp

cloudonego · 14/04/2023 09:55

I'm confident enough the tide is turning that I don't need to resort to drastic measures such as voting Tory. As much as I am infuriated and worried about the trans situation and impact on women, it's a small part of my life vs everything else the Tories are doing.

noblegiraffe · 14/04/2023 09:56

if voting tory means that kids don’t get socially transitioned at school

It hasn't so far. And no guidance to say otherwise yet. Why do you think it is taking so long?

EmotionalSupportHyena · 14/04/2023 09:56

noblegiraffe · 14/04/2023 09:53

A woman, in England was murdered by a police officer, and peaceful women were arrested and manhandled by the police at the vigil held for her.

Women in England have been put in cells for things that they have posted on the internet.

And the state of the Met. The rape statistics.

But yeah, vote Tory to protect women, because they've said something you agree with. Hmm

The Met come under the (Labour) Metro Mayor’s jurisdiction!

https://www.london.gov.uk/programmes-strategies/mayors-office-policing-and-crime-mopac

Aerial view of central London

Mayor's Office for Policing and Crime (MOPAC)

The Mayor's Office for Policing and Crime (MOPAC) provides information on our crime priorities and police performance.

https://www.london.gov.uk/programmes-strategies/mayors-office-policing-and-crime-mopac

cloudonego · 14/04/2023 09:57

And let's not forget Tories didn't bother attempting to tackle misogyny because it is too difficult, they are not allies for women.

noblegiraffe · 14/04/2023 09:59

The Met come under the (Labour) Metro Mayor’s jurisdiction!

Pretty sure the police come under the Home Office. Who are too busy fannying around trying to send people to Rwanda to actually tackle stuff like misogyny.

fuzzbearpenguin · 14/04/2023 10:00

You're voting Torie based on a sound bite? I bet you voted brexit because of the slogan on the side of a bus said all the saved money would go to the nhs too.

The Tories have had over a decade to sort shit out and the country is in ruins.

If you're voting Torie based on this single thing you're a Moron.

Sharkyto · 14/04/2023 10:00

EmotionalSupportHyena · 14/04/2023 09:51

We’d certainly not want her to be raped in a homeless shelter.

Yes, such a relief.
Although given most people can’t get a space at a homeless shelter, given a fifth of them have closed under the Tory’s (at last count, 8,000 less beds available since 2010) I’d like to know how mr sunak expects her to designate her spot on the street as a penis free space. Or does his thinking about women not stretch beyond bold public statements that will get mindless voters tails wagging.

EmotionalSupportHyena · 14/04/2023 10:02

noblegiraffe · 14/04/2023 09:59

The Met come under the (Labour) Metro Mayor’s jurisdiction!

Pretty sure the police come under the Home Office. Who are too busy fannying around trying to send people to Rwanda to actually tackle stuff like misogyny.

So you don’t think Sadiq Khan has any responsibility for THE MET at all?

Christ on a cracker, why bother having metro mayors or police and crime commissioners if they can all just point at the home office and be absolved of all responsibility?

Needmoresleep · 14/04/2023 10:03

What a woman is should not be a party political issue. It falls into the water is wet category. It should be something that far right and far left and everyone in between agree on.

Equally forcing a vulnerable woman to share a prison cell or a room in a psychiatric care facility with a biological man is inhumane. This too is basic.

I assume many people will have reservations about giving their vote to a party who don't get this.

Keir needs to get on top of this issue quickly regardless of short term blow back. Otherwise it will continue to eat into his credibility. Isn't it 'Stevenage woman'. Perhaps he should go there and knock on a few doors to hear what people have to say.

Whaeanui · 14/04/2023 10:04

Why would I trust labour to do anything for women at all if they turf women out of their party who refuse to accept men can be one of us?? I wouldn’t trust them with my money if the leader thinks women can have a penis.

teawamutu · 14/04/2023 10:07

oldwhyno · 14/04/2023 09:31

As damaging as it may be in other respects, I'm prepared to make this the single issue over which I decide my vote. Labour have only to do one thing, make a manifesto pledge that makes it clear and unambiguous that they know what a woman is and will protect women and girls. If they do my vote will probably go their way.

This. Over to you, Labour.

Chersfrozenface · 14/04/2023 10:07

PomegranateOfPersephone · 14/04/2023 09:45

I’m with Hag. The Labour Party has a new agenda, a quasi religious belief which amalgamates queer theory, gender identity, critical race theory. This new agenda will suffuse everything they do, it has replaced socialism. They cannot create a fairer more functional society using this new quasi religious belief. In my opinion this particular new agenda will create more divisions in society, limit freedoms of the majority while privileging a minority, and be disastrous for women and children, for vulnerable adults of both sexes, for adherents of other religions, for men who value freedom of speech and safeguarding of their children.

Labour believe that men are who they say they are. A country, a society cannot be run effectively without acknowledgment that there is material, objective, observable reality in regard to the physical world which includes us human beings.

We need to be able to make judgments about who people are and what risks they might pose to ourselves, our families and society at large. We cannot take anyone’s word about it we need objective evidence. We must be allowed to trust in the evidence of our own senses and not forced to deny it in speech or action. Governments must be able to collect and disseminate accurate data and in some circumstances to require factual identity documentation.

If Labour was genuinely about publicly funded public services for example I’d be interested but Labour is not about that it is about this new belief system, the belief that an individual creates his or her own identity out of “gender”, skin tone, and intimacy preferences and then that identity must be validated and celebrated by all of us as individuals, by the state and state institutions, by charities and by private businesses backed up by authoritarian means.

This ^

Just look at Labour in Wales.

Look at the Welsh (Labour) government's LGBTQ+ Action Plan

Look at the Welsh government's insistence on mixed sex toilets in schools, in defiance of regulations.

Look at the Welsh government's sex education documents, which insist on teaching about "sex, gender and sexual orientation".

Education is a devolved matter. This is what Labour is already doing in Wales.

And look at Labour in Scotland. The party there whipped its MSPs to pass the GRR legislation. It has backed the SNP's legal action against the UK government's use of Section 35 to stop GRR.

This is the actual record of the Labour Party's actions where it is in power.

Crunchyb · 14/04/2023 10:10

RoyGBivisacolorfulman · Today 09:39
think many of you are hypocrites for whom (anonymous) talk on the internet is cheap.

In what way is it hypocritical?

I think many who have taken this line that the current state of affairs regarding gender self-identity is all the Tories fault are not speaking boldly about this issue in their friendship circles and workplaces. If they are, they weren’t doing this five years ago. People are speaking more openly now because things are changing in the media due to the work of lots of women, court cases, unfortunate examples of where self-identity can lead (Emily Bridges, Lia Thomas, Isla Bryson) etc.

Most people have taken a while to realise the harms of trans ideology and gender self-identity in particular. The Tory party are no different. They’re meant to represent the people but it took them a while to work out how the people really feel about the issue because of the climate of fear. Transactivists are still claiming gender critical beliefs are in the minority!

Labour wouldn’t have been any better on this issue because all the politicians were initially captured. In fact, I think we would already have gender self-ID if Labour had been in power. Putting the breaks on required some bravery by Liz Truss. It’s probably the one good thing she did!

I’ve never voted Tory and I don’t like their sense of superiority. I live in a safe Tory seat so my vote only makes a difference in local elections. We can try Labour, maybe they’ll be better for the country in general but on this particular issue Labour are bad, were bad and tell us they will continue to be bad.

The Tories were bad but have actually listened to what people are saying. And yeah, they’ve listened because they think it will be helpful for them rather than because they are generally champions of women’s rights. Having said that, I think Liz Truss and Kemi Badenoch are two Tory women who were instrumental in changing the Tory position and they not only listened to women but understood the concerns because they are women.

noblegiraffe · 14/04/2023 10:12

EmotionalSupportHyena · 14/04/2023 10:02

So you don’t think Sadiq Khan has any responsibility for THE MET at all?

Christ on a cracker, why bother having metro mayors or police and crime commissioners if they can all just point at the home office and be absolved of all responsibility?

Who appointed Cressida Dick as Chief of the Met despite her track record? Was that Sadiq Khan? No, it was the Home Office. He was the one who got her to resign though.

EmotionalSupportHyena · 14/04/2023 10:13

Sharkyto · 14/04/2023 10:00

Yes, such a relief.
Although given most people can’t get a space at a homeless shelter, given a fifth of them have closed under the Tory’s (at last count, 8,000 less beds available since 2010) I’d like to know how mr sunak expects her to designate her spot on the street as a penis free space. Or does his thinking about women not stretch beyond bold public statements that will get mindless voters tails wagging.

Again, devolution puts the responsibility elsewhere - up here, homelessness is under Andy Burnham’s a Labour remit and he’s done a pretty good job.

Want to hand Burnham’s successes over to the government because you’ve decided homelessness is solely the responsibility of the Westminster Government?

It’s not baddies in blue v goodies in red. Sometimes it’s a Labour fuck up, sometimes it’s a Labour success, but Labour has plenty of responsibility in the state of things right now, not everything is on Tory laps.

Off the streets: how Manchester found homes for hundreds of rough sleepers | Social housing | The Guardian

Three years on from its launch, the GM Homes Partnership has become one of the UK’s most successful homelessness projects

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/10/how-manchester-found-homes-hundreds-rough-sleepers-home-partnership

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