Good things about being a feminist

[sethstarkaddersmum]

I'll start.

1. Less painful feet

This is really interesting. I actually feel a bit better about the 'feeling inferior because of what I think feminists think' thing after reading your posts, so thank you.

I hadn't really thought of the pressure to maintain your appearance as being one of the bigger feminist issues but lots of people have mentioned it. If women do it in order to get the approval of men then I can see that it is a feminist issue. Don't lots of women do it for their own satisfaction though?

I can see that it is bad if women feel society will think they are worthless if they are not up to a certain 'standard' of physical attractiveness. We shouldn't be all about physical appearance and nothing else. Are these standards that we enforce on ourselves or are they enforced by men (or what we think men think?)

They're enforced by society in general. WOmen are held to a higher standard of behaviour to men in all areas: appearance, cleanliness, sexual behaviour, violence, neglect of children, etc etc. Men get away with lots of things that women can't. It grinds you down after a while. So feminists want to make it okay for women not to have to care about their looks, or worry about the state of their house and all that. feminists don't say you can't try to look beautiful or your best. Just that it's okay not to.

OrdinarySAHM

I think feminists just want society to stop telling women how we should be! There are more differences within the sexes than between but it is society that tells us that men and women are poles apart and women are more "feminine", naturally better at housework etc but there is no scientific evidence to support this.

Lots of women do doll themselves up for their own pleasure, so do men, everyone wants to be attractive to the opposite sex but it isn't so prescribed for men (I wouldn't dream of going out with hairy underarms for example 'cos people would make a hell of a lot of judgements about me but isn't that sad? That I feel like I HAVE to alter my physical appearance to be acceptable to society?) men aren't judged by their appearance so much in the workplace for example where appearance shouldn't be an issue but job performance but there are threads on this forum about women being told to put some make up on and how often have you looked in the mirror wondering if what you're wearing is appropriate for work or buying a new outfit for every occasion when a man just has to whack on a suit? Basically feminism sees how men really have it easier than women in these kind of domains and fights against it for those who don't want to be told how they should live their lives.

Anyway, if you think Feminism is oppressive, you misunderstand.

It's not about forbidding people from doing the hoovering or wearing stilettos. It's about questioning why women are thought to be "better" at housework ( you can bet if it was a well-paid job, suddenly men would be better at it as they're more "systematic" or something), and why women get ridiculed whether they do or whether they don't conform to the standard of beauty. Someone like Ann Widdecombe for example, everyone took/takes the piss out of her for dressing (more or less) in the same way as her male colleagues. But then Theresa May ( I think) has the piss taken out of her for having several pairs of shoes, it's always the first thing mentioned about her.

Also there's the issue of women's time. Time is precious and I sometimes resent the fact that the shaving/make-up/hairdrying/straightening/outfit choosing needed to get me "smart" enough for e.g. a meeting, or a dinner, takes up a massive amount of time. Every woman has probably literally spent months of her life doing activities that no-one asks or expects men to do. This is my life that's going past here.

Not having my self-esteem depend upon my rapidly declining looks or upon my ability to attract and keep a man

Sharing equally with my husband the burdens of breadwinning and bringing up our son

The joy of female company

knowing exactly what is wrong with D.H.Lawrence

I love you SSM. Is it "he is an insecure macho tosspot"?

But we have a reason for these choices. And wish to celebrate that fact.

What makes you a non-feminist then Harpy, out of pure curiosity?

I love being a feminist because I have the freedom to do whatever I like to my pubic hair, no matter WHO may think it's "just wrong"

I love being a feminist because there is 2 days' washing up in my sink and although I am having feelings of displeasure at knowing I have to do it tomorrow, I have no feelings of guilt whatsoever.

THeShriekingHarpy, thanks to feminists you're allowed to say you loathe housework wihout being regarded as a pariah

The Women of Westminster sound like feminists then, TSH.

Since my version of feminism is that men and women are both people, and neither group should be kept down by the other, you'd be hard pushed to be more egalitarian. More egalitarian than a straw feminist you've made up, yes.

That Susan Brownmiller quote is interesting. Having seen the recent cases where male dominated police forces refused to take victims seriously or collect evidence when allegations of rape were made (I'm thinking John Worboys and Kirk Reid), with the result that countless more rapes were allowed to happen, it almost makes sense to me. I wouldn't say it's always conscious, but I would say it's no skin off most men's nose if women are being raped and men aren't being punished for it. If you state a view that rape is common (a fact) then you are immediately labelled an "extremist", it's said you think "all men are rapists". But it's the same people saying that who would blame me if I were raped walking alone at night, because I should have "expected it". Whichever way some people have to spin the facts to get Rape Is Women's Fault And No Man Should Have To Suffer For It, they will.

I like being a feminist because it means if the house is a state it's no my fault any more or less than it's DH's fault.

I love being a feminist because it helps me reject the scripts that are projected on me by the patriarchy: appearance is one example, by no means the only one, but it's pertinent at the moment because just yesterday I found myself picking up the dog leash and thinking "yes, I am going out in these shorts and this tank top even though I look neither glam nor polished: it's 40C outside and I'm 37 weeks pregnant, and no, I haven't shaved my legs because I can't bloody well reach without breathing in, and it's uncomfortable, so sod it, if and when I shave my legs, it's for my own pleasure, and no one else's."

The weekend was a long-weekend over here (Independence day) and DH had monday and tuesday off. He grew masses of stubble and I doubt he ever thought "I should shave this so that I am more aesthetically pleasing, before I go outside." Because he's not expected to be aesthetically pleasing and decorative first and foremost - he's a man, and is expected to be other things within the patriarchy (many of them toxic) - but he is at least allowed to slob off grooming when it's uncomfortably hot. I had to earn that allowance for myself, by fighting off the Patriarchy On My shoulder - and Feminism gave me that confidence.

ramblerambleramble... long way of saying Feminism gave me enough outrage at the injustices in the world for me to become brave, and some of that courage involves saying to the world: Here I am, I'm good enough as I am, take me as I am - or sod off

fab post blackcurrants. It's mad the amount of justification you/me/one has to go through to go out in shorts with unshaved legs

It's just ridiculous.

doesn't sound rambley to me, sounds great.

Hope you've got a lifetime supply of ice pops or something to keep you cool btw!

I do, thanks! Also airconditioning in the bedroom, which is wonderful. If I didn't have that, I think I'd never sleep and basically just sit around whinging. As it is, I've made a little next on this bed and may not leave till my waters go.... fingers crossed it will be soon!

Good last point there TSH BUT if men are THAT worried about their wives, sisters and daughters being raped, surely they would all form a massive powerful coalition against patriarchy of the kind that feminists are trying to do. Why are they so strangely silent? In fact, I'd say the police who disbelieve victims have wives and daughters. IN fact, I'd say RAPISTS have wives and daughters. Oh, wait, lots of rapists do rape their wives and daughters. Can't be that bothered about their wives can they?

WHile I see your point about caring about men, I really think if men are that bothered they should do more to show it, frankly.

I thought this,TSH until I read Against Our Will.I don't think all men are rapists and found the all men....all women statement extremely irritating. I'm not in a state of fear,and the men I know are not rapists.

But a lot of the rape discussed in Brownmiller's book is rape used as a tool of war,or oppression eg in slavery or because of race,and in that context I think the statement that rape is a tool used by "men in general" to keep "women in general" in a state of fear fits only too well.

In that context men are not acting as sexual predators,but they are acting in violence.(The thing that horrified me looking at the more modern examples was how little change there seemed to be ,it still seemed acceptable to rape the enemy women because - well,they were the enemy. And women..)

I'm sure other people will have other views on this,but this is how it struck me.

"I hadn't really thought of the pressure to maintain your appearance as being one of the bigger feminist issues but lots of people have mentioned it. If women do it in order to get the approval of men then I can see that it is a feminist issue. Don't lots of women do it for their own satisfaction though?"

There is a third option - women do it because of how they feel they will be judged by other women. How common a reason for "maintaining your appearance" is that, relative to the other two options?

Is it as simple as that though? Is the "norm" in terms of what 'men' (if we can all be lumped together as one homogenous group) 'expect' in terms of female appearance the same as the "norm" that 'women' have in this regard?

That's interesting Pogle, I haven't read it yet but it sounds like I should. (Not one for the AIBU thread unfortunately )

"She quite literally fails to distinguish between men and sexual predators" - but for the most part that's impossible, as most sexual predators are men. You can't distinguish between them as if they're two separate groups when one is pretty much a subsection of the other.

Brilliant post, Sakura. I often wonder that myself, and when I wonder about it I end up feeling pretty disturbed TBH.

What I wonder is when will we get to the point the civil rights movement got to, when white people started to stand up for the rights of black people? When will feminism stop being a "women's issue" for us to sort out (bearing in mind this is impossible), and start being cared about by people of all sexes out of an interest in human rights?