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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Is this acceptable in a school?

288 replies

noblegiraffe · 27/06/2010 14:48

A friend of mine is a teacher in an all boys school. He was showing a group of pupils some of the football and was fast-forwarding to get to the action. The camera lingered on some pretty girls in the crowd (you know the ones they normally pick!) and the pupils demanded that he go back so they could get a proper look. He obliged, but commented that if there had been a single girl in the classroom, he wouldn't have.

Obviously this was a pretty minor incident, but do you think it was fine (and if so, would it have also been fine if there had been girls present?), or is it encouraging the sexual objectification of women? Or anything else?

What are your thoughts?

OP posts:
hester · 27/06/2010 20:24

Please god let this man never, ever teach my daughters.

Leaving aside what he actually did, just the fact that a whole group of mothers is telling him they find his actions inappropriate, and he is refusing to listen, reflect or even be respectful in response - well, words fail.

ImSoNotTelling · 27/06/2010 20:26

How did the women consent to be viewed?

If I go to see a sporting fixture which is televised, I do not go so with the explicit knowledge that my image might be used for a classroom-full of teenaged boys to leer over. I have not given my consent for that.

Prolesworth · 27/06/2010 20:26

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ImSoNotTelling · 27/06/2010 20:27

Do you also watch the women's wimbledon matches in the classroom, in slow motion?

Nothing wrong with that, no sirree, nothing wrong with that at all.

I think you get a TBH.

Imperator · 27/06/2010 20:27

re: ImSoNotTellin
"Fabulous, you're obviously a real caring kind of guy"
I am actually. Thanks.

"You genuinely believe that all actions exist in a vacuum, that there is no way that what you did will have confirmed any ideas in impressionable young minds about what women are for"

No, I don't. I think you need to make a case that I did, tbh.

ImSoNotTelling · 27/06/2010 20:27

Excellent point Hester.

I wonder if any of the boys will tell their mothers...

MarthaLovesMatthew · 27/06/2010 20:29

Imp - why did you tell your friend (the OP) about this incident?

sethstarkaddersmum · 27/06/2010 20:29

He's perfectly normal though ISNT. We don't know very much about human nature, if we don't realise he's not perfectly normal. Because none of us realised before that some women like it!

ImSoNotTelling · 27/06/2010 20:30

""You genuinely believe that all actions exist in a vacuum, that there is no way that what you did will have confirmed any ideas in impressionable young minds about what women are for"

No, I don't. I think you need to make a case that I did, tbh. "

Um, you keep saying that it was harmless fun and no harm done. Thus you believe that the action of replaying the clip exists in a vacuum, ie it does not reinforce any sexist ideas about women that the boys may have. Now you are arguing that actions like this do not exist in a vacuum?

You seem a little confused.

Imperator · 27/06/2010 20:30

re: ImSoNotTellin
"Do you also watch the women's wimbledon matches in the classroom, in slow motion?

Nothing wrong with that, no sirree, nothing wrong with that at all"

There you go again. Why add slow motion to the equation? Did I mention that? No.

I find it interesting that people have to add their own inferences to make a case for my 'sexism'.

I have to go now, ladies. Good luck with toppling the patriarchy. Although I suspect that all you need is a man's touch to make it happen.
;)

sethstarkaddersmum · 27/06/2010 20:31

oops, typo - 'don't realise he's perfectly normal'. sorry, too much wine.

TheFallenMadonna · 27/06/2010 20:31

The issue of consent is irrelevant here I think. According the the OP, which you kind of confirmed with your "appreciation" comment, you rewound for the purpose of re-viewing the girls because you and you pupils thought they were nice to look at. So objectification for sure.

HerBeatitude · 27/06/2010 20:32

Why are we still engaging with this guy?

He's obviously not here to debate, he's just a boring wind up merchant.

Imperator · 27/06/2010 20:33

re: ImSoNotTellin
"Um, you keep saying that it was harmless fun and no harm done. Thus you believe that the action of replaying the clip exists in a vacuum, ie it does not reinforce any sexist ideas about women that the boys may have. Now you are arguing that actions like this do not exist in a vacuum?

You seem a little confused."

No, you seem to be poor at debate. You need to show that I reinforced something to make your case, as simply asserting it is not enough.

sethstarkaddersmum · 27/06/2010 20:34

just cos it got to the point where he was digging himself deeper into a hole and it was funny, I think.

Prolesworth · 27/06/2010 20:36

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HerBeatitude · 27/06/2010 20:37

LOL proles, I expect he explains about racism to ethnic minorities as well.

ImSoNotTelling · 27/06/2010 20:37

It's interesting that consent has come into this.

The comments of imperator show nicely the attitude that is causing such problems in society in general and with rape cases specifically.

This idea that women are in a permanent state of consent.

In this case, simply by going to a sporting fixture which is televised, a woman apparently is consenting to being leered over by gangs of teenaged boys.

Interesting to see that "women always consenting" idea in action.

Prolesworth · 27/06/2010 20:39

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OrientCalf · 27/06/2010 20:42

god this is really really depressing

TheButterflyEffect · 27/06/2010 20:47

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HerBeatitude · 27/06/2010 20:53

I don't think it's depressing in that it's actually what I expect from an average teacher tbh.

I have come across and heard about so many instances of casual sexism in schools and been so outraged by the fact that sexism is not treated with the same degree of seriousness that racism is, that I'm not surprised that this sort of attitude is on display here. I imagine it's quite common. Only really switched on teachers seem to be aware of these issues.

I think that's why we really need to put pressure on schools to treat sexism as seriously as they do racism. Currently, the less enlightened teachers may not understand why they are not allowed to do xyz with regards to racism, but at least they do understand that they are not allowed to do it. Whereas with sexism, they're about 20 years behind.

Booboobedoo · 27/06/2010 20:54

Do you react so defensively to your pupils if they challenge you?

I find it depressing that a someone in charge of educating children should resort to such cheap point-scoring.

You say the boys 'just laughed' when you replayed the clip.

Why do you think they did that?

sethstarkaddersmum · 27/06/2010 20:55

I too am not depressed by it, because we know there are people like him out there so it's no surprise, but I was expecting far more MNers to be jumping in saying 'oh it's all just harmless fun' and it's been encouraging how much agreement there is.

Blackduck · 27/06/2010 20:56

"No, you seem to be poor at debate. You need to show that I reinforced something to make your case, as simply asserting it is not enough."

And his statement that no harm was done was based on what exactly.........ahh....yes...it was an assertion... (but by a man so that clearly carrys more weight....