So banning the Burka - freeing women from opression or taking away free choice...?

[Portoeufino]

I read that in Belgium there is a draft bill to ban burkas and also the niqab.

As they put it " There is nothing in Islam or the Koran about the burka. It has become an institution of intimidation and is a sign of submission of women. A civilized society cannot accept the imprisonment of women."

They then talk of "matters of public safety" - is that implying that if you wear a burka is it therefore likely you might have it stuffed with explosives? Or if you cover your face, then there are security issues connected with that?

I have to admit I am very ignorant about all this. DO women only wear this clothing because they are opressed? Do they choose to? What happens if it is banned? Are women freed, or will they end up forbidden from leaving the house?

I am very interested to learn and understand more about this.

Oh and there are now vit D defiency problems created by the wearing of strong sunscreen. I think that improving diet (oily fish etc) and supplements if especially required is a far better solution

"women who work in a profession alongside men will cover because Allah tells them in Qur'an to cover up in front of men they aren't related to."

What is the reason for this?

And why cover up? I see muslim women every day (said this already). Their heads are covered and the only flesh you see is their face and hands. But they dress in "fashionable" clothes and look stylish and modern. A lot more than I do it could be said!

Presumably it is perfectly acceptable for them to go about their day to day business dressed as such. They look wonderful - no cleavage, no arses hanging out etc. Why would you need to stick a burka over the top?

why don't you ask Him on Judgement Day

the point is that..

women only cover in front of men they are able to marry

Allah has told us that we don't have to go OUT to work, He has made that mens responsibility.

so we do not have to be out all day working in a burqa, we can be at home, not covering, doing our (just as demanding) work.

maybe i'm not making sense

"In the above-mentioned hadith we find Al-Fadl looking at the lady because her beauty attracted him. Here too, it is understood that the face of the lady was exposed as the hadith says that the woman was beautiful. Obviously, it is the face that plays the most significant role in making a person being perceived as ugly or beautiful. In spite of this, the prophet didn't instruct the lady to cover her face but instead turned the face of Al-Fadl in order to prevent him from staring at her, further substantiating the verse of the Qur'an from Surah An-Noor, 24:30, which says:

"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do."

Quote from Puss earlier...not for the women to cover but for the men not to look.....

Interestingly enough, in France, where I live, out of 8 or 10 millions of muslims only few thousands women cover their faces and a great majority of them are ethnically French converts, not women of Arabic or Asian origin.

Umayma, you are taking few verses that were written centuries ago literally and think they still apply today? I think there's plenty things in the Bible that are very outdated re women's having to submit to men's wishes etc. Haven't our ideas about equality between sexes evolved a bit since then?

For some, obviously not.

?And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear therof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons, or their women or the servants whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex, and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O you Believers, turn you all together towards Allah, that you may attain Bliss.? (Quran 24:31).

?O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.? (Quran 33:59)

Do you cover umamayma, if you don't mind me asking?

yes Qur'an verses still applies today.

it makes no difference what century we are in. you are still going to stand before Him on Judgement Day, so you can argue with Him about why do women have to cover and not men.

good luck

Muslims believe that the Qu'ran is the 'word of God' which was transcribed in the time of the Prophet but was not written by man or altered by man (hence the heavy empahsis on learning the full arabic script off by heart so that it cannot be alterd)

Translations/commentries may have errors as may 'interpretations' of what is said but the actual text is believed to be error free.

"Umayma, you are taking few verses that were written centuries ago literally and think they still apply today"
So yes she probably is

yes but i don't cover my face due to my family being upset. i wear a jilbab (loose dress) and headscarf.

i don't mind anyone asking, ask away!

Right...I'm sure there are some bits in Koran (as in the Bible) about capital punishment.
Presumably you agree with that? Stoning for adultery?

And weren't a lot of women in Koran very, very young when they got married. So since you take it so literally, you wouldn't mind marrying your daughter off at 11, I guess.

he he dittany

Well I am all for open debate....though i have to go to bed now. It is 1am where I am ....I am learning a lot!

well, umayma?

where does Qur'an say u have to marry your daughter off young?

i see we have experts on sharia law here

Sure dittany, but i'm sure you will understand why i wont bother to respond to your questions of me in future, as i did reply to you as a matter of courtesy even though i had asked you first.

Dittany, this is a topic which asks a question - everyone has a right to reply with their personal opinion. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean that it's any less valid as a contribution to the discussion.

Well, wasn't the Prophet's wife like 9 or 11 when they got married?

So tell me, are there or not verses about punishment like stoning and cutting hands off for thieving in Koran. I actually don't know this, so honest question.

yes its so funny dittany isn't it.

won't be so funny when you're in front of Him though.

umayma, please answer my question.