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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

So banning the Burka - freeing women from opression or taking away free choice...?

557 replies

Portoeufino · 09/04/2010 20:23

I read that in Belgium there is a draft bill to ban burkas and also the niqab.

As they put it " There is nothing in Islam or the Koran about the burka. It has become an institution of intimidation and is a sign of submission of women. A civilized society cannot accept the imprisonment of women."

They then talk of "matters of public safety" - is that implying that if you wear a burka is it therefore likely you might have it stuffed with explosives? Or if you cover your face, then there are security issues connected with that?

I have to admit I am very ignorant about all this. DO women only wear this clothing because they are opressed? Do they choose to? What happens if it is banned? Are women freed, or will they end up forbidden from leaving the house?

I am very interested to learn and understand more about this.

OP posts:
Casmama · 10/04/2010 00:08

Going back to the original question - I think it would do no good to ban any item of clothing. That in itself is an infringement of civil liberties.
If any women are being forced to wear such items by their husbands then you would imagine that being prevented from doing so would result in them being banned from going outside which would be far worse.

It is interesting to have a discussion on peoples views but I don't think banning is appropriate.

umayma · 10/04/2010 00:11

yes winnybella and how old were his other wives?

the minimum age for a girl to marry and go to husbands house is puberty.

there is nothing to say though that girls have to be married off then.

why don't you read Qur'an then if you're interested

dittany · 10/04/2010 00:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TeenyTinyToria · 10/04/2010 00:13

I have to agree with Casmama. It's such a difficult thing to give an sort of definitive judgement on.

If I had my way of course, then religion would all just disappear and the world would be a lot nicer, more peaceful place. Let's have morality and respect for each other, without the religious overtones.

dittany · 10/04/2010 00:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

winnybella · 10/04/2010 00:18

Ah...I just googled and Koran says that capital punishment can be used, but what is interesting is that apparently in case of man murdering a woman the death penalty wouldn't be just...

and yes, puberty...the point is not that they have to be married off at puberty, but that they can. Many girls reach puberty at 10 or 11. So it's fine to do that, then, umayma?

Tortington · 10/04/2010 00:20

going out to w ork being a mans responsability has made me so sad.

i have no words

winnybella · 10/04/2010 00:21

So, if your friends, for example, married off their daughter at 11, because she had her period and because it's fine by Koran, you wouldn't find it reprehensible, then?

winnybella · 10/04/2010 00:24

I mean, you couldn't possibly disapprove of it because it's permitted in Koran.

umayma · 10/04/2010 00:27

oh lets just google sharia law and go on the first anti islamic website we find.

right so now you are a scholar in sharia law. and men can murder women without the death penalty. whatever, i just can't be bothered with this rubbish.

you said you haven't even read Qur'an, but you think you know Shariah law.

you know you cannot force anyone to marry. so ask your 11 yr old to marry someone, they will say no, then thats it. no marriage.

winnybella · 10/04/2010 00:29

It's somewhere after verse 2:178- it's about a rule of equality, so a man killing a woman would not be punished by death.

winnybella · 10/04/2010 00:32

And I didn't google Sharia law, but verses in Koran dealing with capital punishment.

So, no, I haven't visited any anti-Islamic website.

I don't have an issue with any religion as such, I'm merely pointing out that some of it is a bit outdated, that's all.

umayma · 10/04/2010 00:32

i have my Qur'an here that verse isn't even about that, doesn't even mention it

umayma · 10/04/2010 00:36

okay, if anyone has any genuine questions about Islam i'm happy to answer,

sorry i don't want to be jumping down peoples throats but there is just so much rubbish and untrue things said about Islam.

so sorry for snapping!

farmerjones · 10/04/2010 00:39

winny, every culture has an age of consent. usually arbitraily decided. in the uk, its sixteen. ther eis no biological reason for it to be 16, it just is. in canada it is 14, as it was in scotland.
in the arab world, it was menarche. the onset of periods meant a girl became a woman, and therefore could be married. so, if that happened at 16, or at 11, whatever, it was based on biology. not some random choice.

must go to bed, and not get sucked ba ck into this thread.

winnybella · 10/04/2010 00:42

oh, really? Ok, then, maybe I got the verse number wrong...

I did read a lot of scary stuff about marriage, though- verses about how men are better than women, how they can punish them if they 'rebel', how girls are 'given' in marriage etc etc- exact quotes.

I am definitely not trying to offend you, but I just disagree with applying the same attitudes and laws as ages ago and that's way I was trying to find verses that no person that believes men and women are equal could possibly think still have a place in the society today.

Anyway, perhaps I will make it my project for tomorrow and come back here with exact quotes and then we'll see?

winnybella · 10/04/2010 00:43

Thanks, farmerjones, but I still believe an 11 year old is a child, period or not.

winnybella · 10/04/2010 00:45

*that's why...not way

dittany · 10/04/2010 00:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

farmerjones · 10/04/2010 00:48

winny, my own culltural upbringing makes me feel that way too. and there are plenty of 16 year olds i would worry about as well. but, thats my problem in not understanding a different cultural norm. it doesnt mean that the rules of that culture arent adequate for it.
onset of menarche is the minimum age. just like 16 doesnt mean that all girls and boys go out and get married at 16 in this culture.

farmerjones · 10/04/2010 00:49

dittany, you are missing the point.
she is NOT A CHILD.
biologically, she is a woman. and is treated as one. ie, able to get married.

farmerjones · 10/04/2010 00:51

do not impose your own cultural mores on everyone else.

your post has me fuming.

winnybella · 10/04/2010 00:54

I get it, farmerjones, but no, I can't think that the rule that allows a child to be married off is adequate.

And, umayma, is it like this, really? You just ask the child if she wants to marry an adult and she says no and that's it? Come on.
And even if she said yes? You think an 11 year old can make an informed decision?

I, for one, am glad, that in western countries sex with underage children is a crime.

umayma · 10/04/2010 00:56

there are 12 and 13 yr olds having babies over here, they've probably slept with a handful of guys before they reach this age.

someone sleeps with their husband once they've reached puberty in arabia. and there is a big fuss.

nobody makes a fuss about the Virgin Mary giving birth to God at 14? or was she 12?

winnybella · 10/04/2010 00:57

Farmer

Do you seriously think it's ok for 10 year olds to have sex with older men just because they already got their period?

Really?

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