Trans identifying people gaslight their parents - a heartbreaking read.

[Soontobe60]

www.pittparents.com?utm_source=navbar&utm_medium=web

This broke my heart to read. The impact a child who chooses to declare themselves the opposite sex has on their mother in particular is brutal. I cannot imagine a world where my children would demand that I change my own history to bow to their indoctrination.

In a nutshell.

Compelled to pretend to agree.

Compelled to prentend our own identities as women have something to do with whatever it is transwomen think womem are.

Indeed. A pluralistic, progressive transgender activism would push for a breadth of services and spaces rather than imposing genderist beliefs onto existing spaces and services.

There are already terms to describe gender, which it would be sensible to employ in genderism.

Sex: male and female
Gender: masculine and feminine

This would make everything much clearer. As soon as you start using male and female when talking about gender (at the same time as insisting that gender isn't the same as sex), nothing is clear (which is presumably the intent).

Society has not agreed this, despite the attempt to impose "no debate". And the singular of "phenomena" is "phenomenon".

Of course sex isn't gender in this context. Why then is my son claiming to be a woman when it's only his "gender" that he has changed? It's not possible to change sex. Gender presentation isn't set in stone, so why is everyone else expected to act as if it is? He can act as "feminine" as he likes (that is, in practice constrain himself by a set of stereotypes of his choosing). He remains my son, and I will not deny my son by pretending that he is something he cannot possibly be. I will make a stand for reality, and hope that he eventually remembers and values the relationships his new worldview denies, that of a son with his father and mother. A "feminine" son if that's his choice. What isn't his choice is to be my daughter, as that is a logical impossibility. He doesn't get to force us to lie.

Oh I know that.

I'm highlighting the cynical manipulation of Genderist language, and the cries of injustice for something they created themselves when they appropriated words that already meant something else.

For a long time they conflated sex and gender because they were one and the same, but sex is now reclaimed territory, thanks to the SC.
They now have to reclaim the narrative and they're pivoting to gender because they can still control that which they made up.
They're trying to rewrite the many years of saying people can transform from one sex into another, by bluffing with BS and claiming that they never said any such thing.

Oh do cluck off with your ageism.

You chooe to use the word 'pervert' presumably because you thought it was edgy, now you're trying to backtrack.

You are dealing with people who use words as they are generally understood, and who appreciate precise and accurate communication.

If you don't like this, I'm sure Reddit will welcome you with open arms.

I wonder if there's a link between parents who try to enforce gender stereotypes and children who have gender dysphoria. I'm struggling to see how they see it as a loss unless they pin a large part of their child's identity on gender. That's still the same person inside regardless of their sex or gender.

It’s not just parents who enforce gender stereotypes though - it’s society as a whole

but yes I did know one mother who - in the child’s hearing - “couldn’t understand “ why the child was good at maths and hated shopping / and yes in the last 10 years not in the Iron Age

and I bet you know the sex of that child and what happened

They're still the same person outside unless they go along the path of hormone treatments and cosmetic surgery for a psychological condition.

Inside? I'm not so sure. There is an impact on personality when someone adopts a new worldview. This may be positive or negative, or some mixture. When the new culture imposes on family and friends, relationships can become strained or even broken. That is bound to impact personality, because our personalities develop in response to the events we cause or happen to us.

It is absolutely clear that trans culture tends to demand adherence to its tenets, even of those who have a different understanding of sex and gender. Any pushback to that, even the most gentle of questions, is often framed as transphobia. If you are convinced that those who love you are transphobic, that must affect your personality.

The point still stands. It is you, amongst others, who is conflating sex with the concept of gender.

Which is how and why the concept of being 'non binary' arose. A sort of half-way house. 'Trans', but not quite.

I’ve noticed that with the parents of “trans kids”, they tend to jump on any sign the child isn’t following sex stereotypes and make a big deal of it.

I'm sure there will be a connection. Theer are many parents who do have very set ideas about wanting to have a son, or wanting to have a daughter. This tends to involve a strong sense of what this might mean and what it might look like in practice to have a child of that sex.

I'm sure there are plenty of parents, too, who would feel deep disappointment, or disapproval, if they thought their child might be gay or lesbian. This may not be very conscious or overt, but the signals are still conveyed and picked up on by the child. And a parent's own struggles with gendered expectations will be conveyed to the child too.

The name society used is transvestism. And thats what you are describing - the agency to wear clothes/have cosmetic surgery. Call that gender, if you want.

But thats not what the 13 year olds are thinking or what 'supportive' parents are expected to encourage. We are expected to treated children as if they are the opposite sex - the girl should be on the boys team because she is a boy. She isnt expressing her 'gender', she is a boy.

And the confusion is understandable- children cant have agency in the same way adult men can, children cannot consent. Children would find the concepts of gender very confusing and a lot of the reasons for adult, male transvestism would go over their heads.

Rather than 'debate' the GC points, it would be useful to you to address or debate TPA stance. Because, given you are both opposed GC, you do not agree with each other.

Transparent illustrates my point very well.

Their identity is as a parent of sons remains as it's a formative group identity that is from lived experience. It can not be erased.

Transparent basically is gaslighting themselves.

13 year old boys who want to go in the girls changing rooms are very possibly starting to demonstrate a sexual fetish. We have no idea which are and which aren't. We just know that cross dressing is sometimes a fetish.

Teenage girls should not have to put up with this and accept it.

There isn't a reasonable conversation to be had on this matter.

It's hilarious how a poster appears to believe (or claims to believe) the rational points the women are making here are just yelling or using emotional tricks rather than examining premises and conclusions, testing for deductive validity & avoiding fallacies

I am entirely satisfied my logic is sound and based in fact, which is how I can express it consistently and calmy not matter how contested individual words may be.

As long as both parties are engaging honestly with a desire to understand and resolve there is always a way to clearly describe reality (or at least agree common terms for concepts even if the validity of the concepts is disputed) so that meaningful discussion and debate can happen.

It's only when one or another (or both) want to create the impression of engagement while actually having no interest in learning, understanding or progressing, but simply in undermining, deflecting abd scoring points on a predetermined personal scoreboard that we see the hurricane whirl of assertion, ridicule and deflection that so typifies many of the Genderist posts here.

Can I have a go at trying to describe what a TRA might understand gender to be? Can I make an attempt to "straw person" it?

A GC person might say there are two "layers" involved: your biological sex, overlayed by your personality/presentation/preference: so, you can be an effeminate man, a butch woman, a masculine-presenting woman, a girly guy etc.

A TRA might say there are actually three "layers" involved: your sex (biology), including the physical shape of your body, then a "gender" layer on top, then your personality or preference overlayed on top of that. So you could have a male body on which sits a female gender (both innate) - making you a (trans) woman, and then choose to be either feminine or butch, or wear typically masculine clothes or feminine clothes at your preference, either aligned with or contrary to your gender layer?

Similarly you could have a female body, have a male gender and then choose to wear (sterotyping) dresses or male suits, but still be a (trans) man because of your gender layer?

Do I understand correctly that is where what is referred to as "gender" fits in?

I have previously recommended that TPA use a spreadsheet to keep track of the lies story.