Trans identifying people gaslight their parents - a heartbreaking read.

[Soontobe60]

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This broke my heart to read. The impact a child who chooses to declare themselves the opposite sex has on their mother in particular is brutal. I cannot imagine a world where my children would demand that I change my own history to bow to their indoctrination.

As for Suzy Green's daughter I have never heard of her expressing regret about being a woman tbh

Castrated boy is not a "woman". Its a castrated boy.

Whenever that hyperbolic claim that recognising the cultural expectations within which we are born affects how we think of ourselves and each other, and even for conscious Feminists this is not an easy thing to untangle - the Feminist insight is consciously recognising it exists, not arrogantly asserting it doesn't - is somehow "Unfeminist" or "denying women agency", my mind goes to some of the terrible things women have done to each other, to their loved ones even, in the cultural belief that whatever it was was right and proper for women.

I can look at those women and both believe they are wrong but have compassion for them and understand why they do it, because I understand the power of social expectations in shapibg our understanding of ourselves and each other.

And I wonder whether the person who believes all choices women make are entirely and fully consciously our own imnate preferences because we have "agency" thinks the women who bring their daughters for FGM think those women are not influenced by their society but sinply choose an innate preference for mulitaring their daughters.

If that is truly how a person with those beliefs thinks, I pity them so much. They understand so little of the real world and the real way women experience oursrlves and our societies.

What are you talking about? Yes, we have agency. Some women want to perform femininity, some don’t. Some want to perform some aspects of it and not others. Some men also want to perform femininity and they are free to do so. None of this changes anyone’s sex or means that they can access rights and spaces reserved for the opposite sex.

@OldCrone

Its not that they don't understand what Gender Critical means, its that they (like they always do) have to redefine it, so that it makes Gender Critical people easier to argue against as what they are has been redefined in to a stereotype that fits the GI need to be a victim.

From personal experience, there is a big problem when language is unilaterally redefined and the redefinitions are imposed on people who don't accept their validity. This manipulation of language is used to bully and confuse people into accepting nonsense. Some of us resist being manipulated, especially in our most important relationships. Telling people that they must change the way they perceive you is not a route to healthy relationship.

So my son can put on a dress, and I may or may not think that's a good look for him. What he cannot do without consequence is expect me to see him as my daughter, especially if he predicates our future relationship on my doing so. That is unreasonable behaviour. As it happens, I think my son would look quite good in a dress or skirt designed for his natural body shape. There are other cultures which have such garments for men, and they look great (Nigeria, for example, or Scotland).

You appear to be use "semantics" as a dismissal, as in "that's just semantics". But semantics matter. The definitions of words matter.

They have nothing but ever-changing usernames. Different toilet, same shit.

DW agrees that I am an ancient cultural relic, but fortunately she appreciates such things. "They are heritage and to be treasured. They are not obsolete."

@TransParentlyAnnoyed i am a parent of a trans child too so I know what you are going through. For both your sakes please consider that your child may be gay and not want to be gay (sadly many young people would still prefer to be straight). Your trans identifying child may be masking heavily (detransitioner Maia Poet has written about this), girls can mask their autism so well that they may not be picked up as being autistic/ADHD in the same way that boys are. Your child may have been subject to long term, low level bullying, may have craved belonging, may have suffered trauma from something that might not cause trauma in someone else. Identifying as trans can be a coping mechanism in the same way that restricting food intake can help numb big feelings for someone with anorexia. If your child has told you that they were anorexic you would not have wrapped your arms around them and removed all food from the house. You would have sought help from the experts. Sadly, there are no trustworthy clinics for trans youth so you need to become the expert, otherwise you risk being part of the problem. If, after all your research, and that means going into it with an open mind and taking a scientific approach to the literature, you still believe that your biological female child is actually male then please reply to this post and help me and others understand.

TRAs have muddied the waters and many well meaning parents quietly believe that they need to affirm their trans child or they will commit suicide. We need to take that fear away from parents. We try so hard to make sure that those with anorexia are protected from bone and other long-term health implications. We should be doing the same for trans identified children not giving them hormones and putting them on the road to surgery and accepting that that is the price they have to pay in the same way that cancer treatment has a price.

A child becoming an adult is not the same as a child rejecting their sex and with it you, the literal embodiment of where they came from and who made them.

Not in your case. You are gaslighting. As I said, a child rejecting their sex is not the same as a child deciding they are a socialist when their parents are Tories.

They are lying if they say they are a man when they are a woman.

Sex & gender are not the same thing….& you know that so enough with the faux grievances.

So let’s assume we agree sex and gender are different. Does that not erase same sex attraction- or my preferred terms lesbians and gays?

If a man says he is a woman and a lesbian to boot he is disrespecting a lesbian expecting her to accept him as female. And not doubt will call her transphobic. Anyway I see you are over on the new thread about the Julie Bindel article on therapy.

True fact Two.,,

If you feel 'bullied' that society has decided to put a name to a phenomena that exists which is what they are hard wired to do as an organisational tool perhaps this isn't the planet for you unless of course you can get past the simple fact that sex is not gender.

For what its worth, I suspect It's not that you can't understand this but you don't want to but desperately need to if you are going to have any chance at a peaceful future.

I wish you well on that journey.

You’re right about transgenderism being a phenomenon.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/phenomenon

That’s about the only thing we concur on.

Self identification means that we are all entitled to our own views & values. That some people maybe offended by that is irrelevant to that entitlement.

You seem to be confusing respecting other people's rights to their own values & beliefs with being compelled to agree with them. Not the same thing.

So why do you refer to your female child as your son? A son is a human male offspring.

It says a lot that TRAs refuse to acknowledge the difference, doesn’t it? It’s like they think choosing not to go to church is exactly the same experience as joining a cult.

R U ok?

I don't have trans children & never stated as such.

The mother in the article seemed to be most concerned that her daughter was taking opposite sex hormones and having her breasts removed so that she looked more like the opposite sex. These actions are to do with sex.

I don't think her main concern was that her daughter wanted to wear trousers and have her hair cut short. These actions are to do with gender.

Perhaps you're a bit confused yourself about the statement you keep repeating that 'sex and gender are not the same thing'.

I hope this clears this up a bit for you.

Sex and gender aren't the same thing.

This is why it makes no sense to use the pre-existing language of sex to now label gender.

An honest movement would acknowledge this and look to separate the two entirely - legally, socially, culturally and linguisticly.

A dishonest movement would look to exploit this "accident" (being very generous there!) of language to appropriate sex based analysis, protections, supports and legal distinctions based on the actually entire different quality of gender, and to silence especially women (in the original female sense) by making it impossible to speak plainly and directly in clear language about the realities we face, and by cynically painting any attempt to assert our own needs and realities in this contect as simply an act of dumb hatred of transwomen rather than women wishing simply to speak for ourselves as female people outside the separate thing that is "gender".

It is such a cynical abuser's trick, to corrupt language (well, to claim not to even understand language that everyone knows in truth they do even if they disagree) such that any attempt to explain why it's wrong becomes proof the explainer should not be heard at all.

If a space is for women only and it is decreed that anyone who self identifies as a woman can use that space, then all users are compelled to agree that anyone who self identifies as a woman is a woman.

OK, so if I identify as a non-believer in genderism, I am entitled to my own views and values. That some people maybe offended by that is irrelevant to that entitlement.

You don't have to agree with me. You can believe in genderism, but you can't force your beliefs on everyone else.

We can't self identify into owning someone else's property. The law won't let us.

We can't self identity into experiencing soneone else's life. Material reality won't let us.

Somewhere between the two models sits gender identities.

Laws can be changed to force women to pretend men's "identies" are somehow interchangeable with our bodies, just as they can be changed to force us to give our property up to others.

But it's only ever a pretence. Material reality still separates male from female, and the side you fall still has consequences, and until those consequences go away no one will truly see transwomen's identity as "woman" like they see the reality of being female.