Trans identifying people gaslight their parents - a heartbreaking read.

[Soontobe60]

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This broke my heart to read. The impact a child who chooses to declare themselves the opposite sex has on their mother in particular is brutal. I cannot imagine a world where my children would demand that I change my own history to bow to their indoctrination.

Yea, sure. Perhaps the many looked after girls who got dragged into grooming gangs just had more freedom to express their sexuality. That’ll be it.

No but they do have a right to decide not to have a relationship with a parent who is unable to respect their wishes.
Oh and not all parents tell embarrassing anecdotes or show baby pictures if their children tell them clearly that they don’t like it. For instance, most wouldn’t dream of showing baby pictures to friends or a new partner if their child asked them not to do that. And you know what, it’s not a big deal and isn’t some huge encroachment on your rights of self expression or whatever.

There are of course a group of people who don’t see their adult children as individuals in their own right and instead they are viewed as extensions of the parent so they happily disregard their child’s feelings.

I don't want my son to "try to fit in with his birth sex". That would be to surrender to societal pressure to be macho, or however else he thinks men are supposed to behave. I do want him to accept the reality of his body. He cannot become a woman, however much he wants to. The things he is currently doing just reinforce his discomfort with the body he has; if he tries to change it, he will come up against the limitations of his biology. For example, if he takes oestrogen, his skeletal structure won't change; his shoulders will remain as broad as they have been since he reached maturity. His hips will remain narrow, and he will remain a little over average male height. Even if he has cosmetic surgery, there are limitations to that. He's not going to get smaller hands. And his internal organs will remain male ones.

I'm perfectly happy with my son being unusually gentle for a man; I suspect that's a psychological result of rejecting male stereotypes though. My own experience is that I'm quite gentle, but that is a choice or a matter of upbringing, not something completely innate. If I had been brought up to hit back, as many of my male schoolmates were, I might have behaved more aggressively. I'm not a born leader, but when pushed into a leadership role, I have learned to do some things that I find difficult. This is all a lifelong learning experience. I am not the slightly effeminate teenager I once was.

My son has changed path drastically, and I am not at all convinced that this is a healthy development or that it is his innate 'identity' suddenly being allowed the freedom to express itself. It looks much more like conversion to a new worldview which purports to solve his discomfort with being a man, but actually substitutes different stereotypes for the conventional ones.

For the hundred millionth time, there is no such thing as 'cis'. It's a pejorative term invented by trans activists to 'other' anyone who disagrees with gender ideology. Women and men have no need to pretend about anything - biological sex is real and can never be changed. It's trans identifying people who are pretending and demanding that everyone else goes along with their pretense.

That's a silly, offensive thing to say. The type of thing someone says when they are reaching too far to justify their point of view.

Someone acting on their autonomy, sourcing information about other people who feel the same as they do and then pursuing transition isnt the same as children being groomed into long term sexual abuse by adults. Those children were never out seeking sexual relations with adult men.

Trans kids are often out seeking explanation and validation for their feelings about their gender identity.

When you say things like this, any real points you have about children making permanent decisions about their body are totally lost.

It seems like you have very fixed ideas about men and women and their traits. I personally find that common in the parents of trans children. The message I'd have got from you if I was a little boy is that men have undesirable traits such as aggression that comes from them being men and ultimately accepting that they are male. Women lack these traits and the ones who do have them are manly or not quite as female as they should be. If I do not accept that I am male, I can avoid these traits.

Well yes, if you're involved with pro-trans things where we have already noted there is a disproportionate number of people who have been in care there is a good chance that you know a lot of people who have been in care.

Children growing up within a family also have adults who will step in and safeguard them, they are called parents. There are parents who don't do this which can make the family not function as it should for the child. There are also professionals who don't do what they should which makes care not function as it should for the child.

There is an overwhelming amount of evidence that supports the fact that being with their family is what is best for children which is why so much social work is geared towards working with families rather than simply removing children. Children who grow up in families where free thought and autonomy is squashed are also on balance better off with their family barring any abuse or neglect.

Out of interest, in your scenario what is the adult trying to "prevent or blackmail"? I'm thinking back to grooming gangs, country lines gangs that target children's homes. There the risk is sexual abuse, physical abuse, exposure to criminal activity, potential to become involved in criminal activity and therefore get a criminal record etc. In your scenario what is the parent doing and what are the risks to the child?

There has been a huge amount of pressure to embed 'gender identity' in law in place of 'sex'. This has been enabled by making it very easy to hear the stories of trans people, and at the same time shutting down the stories of everyone else. So the narrative has been entirely that of the people claiming that transition is a personal and societal good. It's high time for the negatives to be exposed, and parents telling their stories is part of that.

Again - a narrative to suit, with no evidence to substantiate...

the reality is that parents provide balance as children grow up... the child who believes they are a dinosaur aged three is humoured as age appropriate imaginative play - but still has to eat dinner / have a bath and go to bed

as they get older parents give more credence to the emerging child / teenager / adult - but they still provide balance from their wider experience of life

a child going to university is for the first time predominantly outside that parental balance, so it becomes an opportunity for other voices to speak louder and to influence more strongly - and sometimes those other voices have an agenda and speak a world of lies and deceit in a way that sounds convincing...

It is why we have seen an increase in teenage incidences of belief in gender ideology, because we have moved into a world where those outside voices have a way into the teenage child's bedroom past the parental balance through online and social media.

It is why we see such a vast correlation between 'trans' and autism / sexual abuse / child abuse / disturbed childhoods / etc. - because these outside voices need something to feed on, uncertainties to nurture, lack of confidence to bolster, hurts and pain to exploit... and those children are vulnerable from an early day - but become more accessible through online means, and even more accessible once out in the open and away from family life.

If your narrative were correct and the TRA statements about 'you are born trans' / 'it is who you are' / etc. had any validity, then the stat profile would be vastly different - then you would have children from every type of background in equal proportions - NT and Autistic in balance / abused and not abused equal / those with and without mental health histories equally coming out as 'trans'...

but we don't so your narrative is wrong.

We have seen an explosion in numbers because we live in a world increasingly vulnerable to mental health issues, with technology enabling and accelerating it, where any voice can access a young person and it is difficult to balance or fight those voices... not because historically there have been huge numbers of 'trans' people who have been afraid to reveal themselves - the reality is that you can not be 'trans' because no-one can change sex, so all of this movement now is a mental health issue exploited by those with very questionable aims...

and in most cases that is not the parent... (though parents who enable and encourage 'trans' is a whole different discussion as is any other form of child abuse).

Worth remembering that it's you stating that children being in the care of the state "actually have more freedom to be open about whatever gender related issues they have".

Your personal lived experiences (difficult as they may be) don't eradicate everything society knows about what happens to this group of children / young people. Nor how relentlessly they were targeted by transactivists in the early days.

They deserve safeguarding from an ideology and dangerous adults who sell them the possibility of transforming themselves via a sex change - such an attractive notion to traumatised and mentally vulnerable young people. They've been repeatedly failed by so many adults and are prime to be indoctrinated by adults with an agenda.

And as I said earlier:

there are a lot of apparently bright and otherwise switched on people who will quite readily accept the influence of peers, online forums, acquaintances etc and porn, when it comes to the pressure on young women to look a particular way or to perform certain sex acts, or the impact of the ‘manosphere’ on young men, yet think that ‘trans identities’ appear organically, absolutely unaffected by any outside influence.

I find your glib waving away of the concerns about the rate of trans identification among children in care to be pretty offensive tbh.

what a dysfunctional mess - I suppose commensurate with the culture of me the individual.

of course children become independent adults, but no-one has the right to re-write their own history let alone joint histories, and we are all the product of our parents and a part o our family historically - even if we run away from it as adults - that never changes what happened previously.

So, no, children becoming adults does not give them a right to dictate to all around them a re-writing of their childhood.

That's great. The experience of many parents is that even asking questions, or advocating caution, results in being called a transphobic bigot followed by estrangement. Having a different worldview, one that is sceptical of trans identity ideology, is so often framed as bigotry. That framing is coercive when it is clear that going no contact is the consequence of not being enthusiastically affirmed. Not all people with a trans identity do this, but it is a pattern.

Who they think they are?

I thought it was all about being your innate, true self, not just an idea about who you would like to be.

My son did reject his parents' religion. I remain a bit saddened about that, because he is missing out (in my view) on something that has largely been a positive in my life. Rejecting our beliefs didn't destroy our relationship. He remained respectful despite obviously thinking that we are deluded. We had discussions about it, and he remains sceptical.

His 'transition' has been entirely different. We remain sceptical, just as he is about our religious beliefs. He will not discuss trans matters, he has been unwilling or unable to answer gentle questions, and us being sceptical is regarded as 'transphobic' and 'bigoted'.

I cannot help seeing the parallels with fundamentalism within religion.

Yes, the risks of being in care are well known.

Very anti-safeguarding

No but if they say "Mum, could you not call me by my old name or keep talking to me about when I was X because it upsets me" and the parent is not able to accommodate that, then the adult child might decide that their life will be easier and happier without the parent in it. Lots of people go NC with their parents all the time for all sorts of reasons and the majority say they feel much happier and freer for it. Yes, we all have a history and come from somewhere but the good thing about being an adult is that we can have relationships on our own terms, including with our parents. The parents can of course decide whether they want to accept our terms.

That framing is coercive when it is clear that going no contact is the consequence of not being enthusiastically affirmed.

So what you're saying is its 'coercive' to refuse to be around people who think you're delusional? You should suck up whatever views your parents have lest it be coercive?

Walking away or distancing yourself from a relationship does not force the other person to change their mind, nor does it control their actions it simply separates your space from theirs. Choosing who you spend time with is an exercise of personal autonomy and self-preservation not an attempt to control someone else's behaviour or beliefs.

Having a different worldview, one that is sceptical of trans identity ideology, is so often framed as bigotry.

Depending on the framing it certainly can be.

In reality, changing a birth certificate from an accurate sex marker to one which matches a transitory, fluid, imaginary "gender" CAUSES confusion to all concerned. I visited Egypt recently where at the airport (classed as a military airport) there were several different security areas where clearance was expected. Men and women were divided into two queues by SEX and I was "hands on" searched three times at three different security stations by female muslim security officers. Imagine a male (with an incorrect sex marker) attempting to stand in the women's queue, I can tell you now, it would not have ended well to force a female muslim security officer to place hands on a male.

Oh please, Ive been 'patted down' several times at airports & not once did they 'pat' my genitals. Stop making shit up.

No.

What you call "cis" women are not "cis" at all. They are just women, no prefix necessary. Same with men. Don't foist your silly labels onto men and women to make yourself appear valid. #cisisaslur

The thing is, if you ARE delusional and choosing to walk away from the people who love you because all you want is your delusion confirmed, you’re not doing anything brave. You’re just finding a new way to self-harm.

Yeah whatya gonna do about it? Standover oxford dictionary?

Once a word is in broad social usage your'e shit out of luck.

Why are you obsessed with genitals? If you read @MostlyPeaceful 's post properly you will see that genitals are not mentioned at all.