Trans identifying people gaslight their parents - a heartbreaking read.

[Soontobe60]

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This broke my heart to read. The impact a child who chooses to declare themselves the opposite sex has on their mother in particular is brutal. I cannot imagine a world where my children would demand that I change my own history to bow to their indoctrination.

From a statistical perspective it would be interesting to see how many families never get publicity, or discuss their kids decisions openly, because it all goes fine. The newspapers use confirmation bias well.

I wonder

Imagine it wasn't sex that was being rewritten.

Imagine if an adult child said - "I have come to realise you were never my real family. Physically yes I was born to you, but you are just my assigned family. I realise now I should have been born to the Smiths next door. My true Family Identity is Smith and I've changed my surname to Smith. I now remember that spent my childhood with the Smiths next door not you. I don't want to see family photos of my actual childhood with you or hear your memories of happy Christmases because I prefer to remember that I was with the Smiths"

Does that help explain why it's not as simple as "they know who they are"?

But that's too reasonable and doesnt support the activist narrative that we're all transphobic bigots that want all trans identifying people to die, rather than to stay out of single sex spaces and leave kids alone.

It still astounds me that some parents just blindly went along with it.

I don’t think this is entirely fair @allthemind. I don’t think parents ‘blindly’ go along with it. Perhaps some do - probably the same ones who are inclined to plant gender stereotypes in their children’s heads in the first place. But parents are often between a rock and a hard place. They are presented not only with a child who has a shiny new identity, but they are reminded that this new identity is protecting them from depression, anxiety, self harm, suicidal thoughts. Parents love their children and want them to be safe. Of course they don’t want them to have body parts surgically removed or their bone density depleted or the balance of their hormones destroyed forever. But it’s better than death, which is very often presented as the inevitable consequence of not transitioning. It must take incredible strength not to go along with it, however reluctantly.

No, in this case it's the child who is breaking the relationship.

Healthy relationships do not involve forcing people to lie, controlling normal/ natural language and expression, doling out punishment if they slip up or refuse to do so.

It's emotionally abusive.

It works more with parents than anyone else because of the inherent imbalance in the relationship and (usually correct) assumption the parent will do anything to ensure the child's well-being. Fortunately the lie that it's going to promote the child's wellbeing to accede to coercion is being challenged more and more.

Not true. Many people who identify as trans in their early years then revert to their biological sex later in life.

That's an interesting question. I don't know. Yes I said that wasn't possible, but as a girl she could be whoever she wanted to be - it wasn't limiting. She could dress how she liked, be who she wanted, love who she wanted etc. I think she was surprised because, previous to that she had said she might be a lesbian and I was totally unphased by this - I think she thought I would be the same about the trans thing and didn't really see the difference. She did see it as a positive identity though, and was 14, so no, I don't think she would have accepted anything (although actually its very difficult to find anyone - I had enough trouble finding a counsellor who was not strongly affirming and prepared to stay neutral). She is also autistic (like the majority of trans young people) so is quite "black and white" and is very bright and articulate so can argue her point well. It developed fairly gradually so I have wondered what would have happened if I had tried to "nip it in the bud" more aggressively, but I think there was always the danger of complete alienation, which was my worst fear.

Isn't he the one who said that bones regenerate every 30 days so since he's been on HRT, all his bones and skeleton shape have changed to female?

Then there are the multitudes who claim to have a monthly period and go through a whole dog and pony show so they can pretend to have one.

Funny how 'people know who they are' is only valid in one direction. Doesn't seem in any way credible.

exactly

and as they were neither 'trans' nor identifying as 'trans' when born and for the early years of their life, there are very clear stages:

pre-belief
belief
post-belief

which is similar at one end of the scale to a cult, and at the other to a passing fad.

Perhaps those kids in care actually have more freedom to be open about whatever gender related issues they have.

@Lexibletheflexible read that back to yourself. The fact that you can speak so glibly about the most vulnerable children in society says a lot. I would be interested to see any research conducted regarding children who have grown up in care where the child reflects back on feeling a sense of "freedom".

Your post reminds me of childrens books where the parents die and then the child's adventures begin. In reality, James doesn't ride off into the sunset in his giant peach, he is maybe removed from the abusive care of his aunts depending on social worker case loads, bounces through temporary placements hopefully not being further abused and is alone at 18.

These are children growing up without the safety and security of a family, without solid links to their community, with the uncertainty that they could be moved at any time, nobody in their life is 'for keeps', knowing that they will be on their own in the world at 18 with none of the support that a family offers.

Sex and gender are different.

But a common way to perform the trans definition of gender is for TW to have breasts and TM not to.

Breast that are for mothers to feed their children. They are an obvious indicator of sex in adults.

If everyone acknowledges sex and gender are different, its a curious that breasts become such a key point.

Breast are also sexualised. TRA never want to acknowledge their trans siblings who wear women's clothes and film themselves walking around in padded bras and stockings.

Porn is also so accessible, girls learn really young how men think about girls and womens bodies.

I dont understand how parents could not see this. But I understand how the men above would want to skim over the issues. I can understand that young women wouldn't see this clearly.

So we have men who like to film themselves in padded bras, girls who are seeing the worst of male sexuality but not seeing the manipulation and suddenly we have to pretend that trans is an innate trait that is too complicated to put into words. And any parent who questions it is a bigot?

Thats before we discuss the fact that breasts for men can be popping on a bra, the lack of breasts for women is binding or mastectomies.

When I read discussions here about supporting trans children, whatever their age, im always skeptical of who is supporting it.

Parent would be scared. No one wants children to have surgery or take drugs or damage their body in any way. The choice is what is safer affirming or reality. And no one has a crystal ball.

But the TRA dont need to care about the individuals. They want the umbrella to be as large as possible, so that the men who are filming themselves in padded bras become less noticeable.

It's not unreasonable at all.

"Mum, I don't want to see my baby pictures, thank you" / "Mum, I don't want to hear stories about my first period, thank you".

I would usually expect a parents love to be unconditional, but not that of a child. I would have thought that's fairly normal to be honest.

Parents do not dictate to adult children. Adults don't dictate to each other but usually come to mutually respectful agreements.

I missed that comment by @Lexibletheflexible It betrays an absolute lack of understanding of the reality of some children’s lives.

Interesting that you talk about homosexuality seeing as many men who identify as the opposite sex now claim they are lesbian, and many women who also claim to be the opposite sex claim to be gay men. This is the very epitome of homophobia.

'opposing perspective' = complete lack of empathy.

Those are the type of parent who’d be happy to pretend their child is the opposite sex so they can claim they’re heterosexual now. There’s a very clear link to this with what happens in Iran. Homosexuality is against the law and engaging in homosexual activity can, and does, result in the death penalty being carried out. One was round this is to have ones sex hidden by taking hormones and having surgery, which is state sanctioned.

Perhaps those kids in care actually have more freedom to be open about whatever gender related issues they have.

Probably the most egregious example of someone willing to argue their ideology over the welfare of children I have ever read on this forum. Congratulations.

Another story on there includes this quote and it's so weird:

"This [book] opened my eyes to understanding the nature of attachment as hierarchical, and the fact that parents, not children, are meant to be in the lead."

Why on earth do you need a book to tell you that??

this is of course a narrative to suit an argument without substance.

a 'normal' family (as far as one can define normal) has give and take, it has love and support and respect in both directions - it has nothing to do with dictating.

And yes, adults will reminisce about their children / grandchildren / nephews and nieces / god-children and even children of close friends - remembering the fun moments, the embarrassing moments, the celebratory moments - all of that is absolutely normal, to suggest otherwise is to build a narrative of a dysfunctional society that actually bears no resemblance to reality

but then this is an argument coming from the same stable as men being able to become women and v.v. so perhaps not surprising that reality is not involved.

children once they have grown up - accept it as a part of the banter of family life - they might groan and say, 'mum do you have to' but it is accepted as a part of their shared history and with recognition that they all belong to something that can not be removed - membership of that family...

an adult child telling their parents not just that they can not reminisce, but that they must fake the history and pretend a fabricated set of lies has already walked out of that family unit - they have blown it apart in an attempt to re-manufacture reality to a shape they desire...

So, unsurprisingly, you have it back to front - the parents have every right to share what was real, what happened, and what was a large part of their shared years as family...

a grown up child does not have unilateral right to dictate, and especially not to fabricate alternative realities and build a fragile web of lies and expect everyone else to bow down and worship at their imaginary past and future.

The fact remains that when they are in care, if an adult tries to prevent or blackmail them into suppressing their feelings, they will be safeguarded and placed somewhere this isnt an issue.

When you are in your family home with no involvement from a social worker or other agencies, your parents can make you conceal your feelings by making your life miserable if you do not.

That's likely why many of these teens wait until they get away from their parents in university to speak about how they feel.

Id hazard a bet that I know far more people than you do that is involved in the care system. I know how for some people, it was the first time they got to ever find out who they are once they were free from the oppression of their family home.

No, I think it's likely true. That's why so many teenagers come out once they escape their parents at university. They can finally be who they think they are.

I think i have a much better understanding of how some children's lives might be given my background, don't you? Especially those who have been in care.

Its unbelievable that people think they have the right to swamp their children with anecdotes and memories that they find traumatic. Absolutely narcissistic.

Who is saying the mum doesn't know who she is?