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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Taskmaster: if you don’t use ‘correct’ pronouns you’re a philistine…

504 replies

Sugarleaf · 24/10/2026 22:47

…Who’s stuck in the past. To be ‘cool and curious’ you need to use non- biological sex based pronouns. And this is about a ‘certain generation.’ I mean I’m 32 and think it’s bollocks.

plus, as a bonus, ‘if you don’t like me, fine, as long as you use my correct pronouns.’

ffs

Taskmaster: if you don’t use ‘correct’ pronouns you’re a philistine…
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6
OldCrone · Today 08:17

sweetnsourr · Today 08:10

Chloe identifies as "gender non conforming" & uses 'they" "them". So gender stereotypes doesn't apply to her.

Of course they apply to her. They're externally imposed. Nobody has a choice about whether they apply to them or not.

You seem to have no idea at all about what feminism is.

sweetnsourr · Today 08:19

OldCrone · Today 07:47

people spend the better part of their lives catering to their gendered inclinations

Really? I don't think I've ever done this. How would I know if I was "catering to my gendered inclinations"? Can you give some examples?

Anecdotal evidence isn't data. As I already mentioned up thread whole industries & economies are supported by gendered consumerist choices including the beauty, fashion, medical cosmetic enhancements & gym culture to name a few.

StealthTroublemaker · Today 08:19

sweetnsourr · Today 08:10

Chloe identifies as "gender non conforming" & uses 'they" "them". So gender stereotypes doesn't apply to her.

But she is female, and you said sex stereotypes were laid down by society and assigned to the sexes. So they would still apply as she has not changed sex…..

Shedmistress · Today 08:21

sweetnsourr · Today 08:19

Anecdotal evidence isn't data. As I already mentioned up thread whole industries & economies are supported by gendered consumerist choices including the beauty, fashion, medical cosmetic enhancements & gym culture to name a few.

And?

Genuinely, what is your actual point these days? Men are not women, no matter what 'ladies' clothes they buy.

I'm a middle aged woman who worked in construction, and most of the clothes I buy are from the men's section. It does not mean I'm a man.

sweetnsourr · Today 08:21

OldCrone · Today 07:54

Is this what you're referring to that you believe is a central part of most women's lives?

sweetnsourr · Today 00:47
Oh yeah lingerie, micro minis, G string bikinis, gym scrunchie shorts, breast augmentation & exaggerated gym pumped arses

Nope. Its a lot broader. Feminine presentation is a spectrum.

Shortshriftandlethal · Today 08:21

sweetnsourr · Yesterday 20:46

Sure, just like someone has a right to exclude you in a social setting for being anti social.

But at work, it depends. Deliberately misgendering can be considered a form of harassment.

And so can being arsey for people not complying with your demands.

Shortshriftandlethal · Today 08:24

TransParentlyAnnoyed · Today 01:22

Sorry, this was to the FlirtsWithRhinos poster. I know, my audacity as a genderist sexist, aka tired mum with a sandwich who just doesnt want her kid to die, how very dare I.

All because of the greatest emergency women have ever known: being polite to people who are different. That's real feminism right there.

Problem is some people feel they are far more 'different' than they actually are. It can be a form of narcissistic attention seeking. Nobody likes that.

sweetnsourr · Today 08:24

OldCrone · Today 08:17

Of course they apply to her. They're externally imposed. Nobody has a choice about whether they apply to them or not.

You seem to have no idea at all about what feminism is.

The context is self identification. The aren't identifying with man or woman social gender categories.

nutmeg7 · Today 08:25

sweetnsourr · Yesterday 22:38

The legitimate aim provides the legal justification that can be used by an employer or service provider to defend an action that causes a disadvantage.

If there were no disadvantage to start with we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Ah I see you are confused between cause and effect.

“legitimate aim” is where an employer or service provider seeks to ameliorate a pre-existing disadvantage.

E.g. (female) women’s physical disadvantage and vulnerability to sexual or other assault in mixed sex situations where they are vulnerable or in a state of undress.

This is a disadvantage to which it is deemed a proportionate means to a legitimate aim to provide single sex spaces and services for female people.

Thus removing the disadvantage rather than causing it.

sweetnsourr · Today 08:26

Shedmistress · Today 08:21

And?

Genuinely, what is your actual point these days? Men are not women, no matter what 'ladies' clothes they buy.

I'm a middle aged woman who worked in construction, and most of the clothes I buy are from the men's section. It does not mean I'm a man.

Edited

The context is self identification.

Shortshriftandlethal · Today 08:28

sweetnsourr · Today 07:12

It does not confer a power to change how others see you or to become something that you are not.

Noone said it did. That's purely hyper paranoia at work.

or to become something that you are not.

its gender not sex for the zillionth time.

..and 'gender' is a concept - the shape of which resides entirely in someone's mind. It has no demonstrable or easily recognisable features which render it a common object of understanding for everyone.

Crack on with personal imaginings, but it is highly naive to expect others to play along - especially strangers or very casual acquaintances.

StealthTroublemaker · Today 08:29

sweetnsourr · Today 08:24

The context is self identification. The aren't identifying with man or woman social gender categories.

But you said the sexed behaviours were laid down by society….. so are you saying they’re not now? In that case, how could someone identify as a woman or a man? Wouldn’t it be better to just define woman and man by an immutable, binary criteria like for example…. Sex?

OldCrone · Today 08:29

sweetnsourr · Today 08:19

Anecdotal evidence isn't data. As I already mentioned up thread whole industries & economies are supported by gendered consumerist choices including the beauty, fashion, medical cosmetic enhancements & gym culture to name a few.

Do you really think this is what most women's lives revolve around?

Bear in mind that most of the women on here are either mothers or older women.

You seem to be under the impression that most women are under 30, single and looking for a male partner.

It's that "invisible women" thing again where older women cease to exist as actual people, isn't it? If we're not young and looking for a man, we don't exist at all.

StealthTroublemaker · Today 08:30

sweetnsourr · Today 08:26

The context is self identification.

You said sexed social categories were laid down by society and thst determined whether one was seen as a woman or a man depending on how you presented. So therefore it is not self identification it is societal identification….

sweetnsourr · Today 08:31

nutmeg7 · Today 08:25

Ah I see you are confused between cause and effect.

“legitimate aim” is where an employer or service provider seeks to ameliorate a pre-existing disadvantage.

E.g. (female) women’s physical disadvantage and vulnerability to sexual or other assault in mixed sex situations where they are vulnerable or in a state of undress.

This is a disadvantage to which it is deemed a proportionate means to a legitimate aim to provide single sex spaces and services for female people.

Thus removing the disadvantage rather than causing it.

No, you are confused about the context of the discussion which was that sex in itself did not prove a disadvantage existed & where it might required legal justification to receive an exemption from anti discrimination law.

Shortshriftandlethal · Today 08:32

sweetnsourr · Today 01:14

You are advocating to redefine "woman" and "man" as people of either sex who "enjoy" living by these stereotypes rather than simply the two human sexes with no expectations of social "gender" assumed though?

You don't understand what advocating is. Explaining how identity is formed & how our liberal culture accepts individuals are entitled to their own identity isn't advocating for anything.

First, the obvious - why is it somehow better to label people by their stereotypical consumerist choices than simply by sex, especially in contexts where histtorically sex has been the significant, even the defining factor?

Right or wrong by another's subjective moral standards isn't relevant to personal identification (unless they break the law) in a liberal society. Perhaps you may be more aligned to dictatorial regimes. I hear the weather is nice in South Korea & Afghanistan at this time of year.

But also - what about the negative stereotypes that also have power over us? Making a consumerist choice for girly stuff over blokey stuff, fine, but what about the shit that comes with that like being assumed to be superficial, or impractical, or over-emotional? Is there a gender checklist where someone decided which stereotypes are foundational to the identities of "women" and "men" and which are outmoded sexist shite?

The foundational 'check list' so to speak is rooted in typical sexed behaviours that society has deemed to be more associated to one sex than the other. How an individual determines which particular one's are relevant to them is purely subjective.

You seem excessively pre-occupied with 'personal rights' and 'choices', though most things in society are not predicated around an individual's preferences. Society only functions ( and can only be organised) with a large measure of shared and common understanding. And for the sake of emotional stability and mental health we all need to accept that.

sweetnsourr · Today 08:34

Shortshriftandlethal · Today 08:28

..and 'gender' is a concept - the shape of which resides entirely in someone's mind. It has no demonstrable or easily recognisable features which render it a common object of understanding for everyone.

Crack on with personal imaginings, but it is highly naive to expect others to play along - especially strangers or very casual acquaintances.

The context is self identification & pronouns remember. Its remarkable how gender critical feminists always need to centre their own subjective preferences even on the self identification of others.

Its an illiberal movement to its core.

OldCrone · Today 08:34

sweetnsourr · Today 08:24

The context is self identification. The aren't identifying with man or woman social gender categories.

Neither do I. That doesn't make me a man or a non-binary.

I know this is hard to imagine for genderists, but most of us don't spend any time at all thinking about whether or not we're conforming to "social gender categories". We just are.

Edited for grammar

OldCrone · Today 08:36

sweetnsourr · Today 08:26

The context is self identification.

What is the purpose of this self identification?

Runningupthecurtains · Today 08:37

BackToLurk · Today 07:48

Have we had the check list yet? Are there different check lists for different countries? Can we change ‘gender’ just by crossing borders?

Edited

Oh yes I know this one, it happen when men go to weddings in Scotland. They are going about their lives 'menning' normally and bam they put on a skirt and turn female? NB? Less manly? Anyway they definitely display the female sexed gendered activity of skirt wearing so probably means they are actually women but gender women not sex women.

No word from our correspondent yet as the whether all men at Georgian court were trans or not what with the wigs and the make up and the healed shoes.

Shortshriftandlethal · Today 08:37

sweetnsourr · Today 07:21

Clue: Gender.

They live according to the gendered norms/roles/behviour/ associated to the opposite sex.

Nobody lives or conforms exactly according to stereotypes and expectations. What you are describing is a performance. Role play.

The contestants in 'Stars in their Eyes' are just pretending to be a famous singing star, by mimicking their voice and their mannerisms. Nobody in the audience really thinks they have become that person, although they may for a minute or two be able to suspend their disbelief.

OldCrone · Today 08:42

sweetnsourr · Today 08:34

The context is self identification & pronouns remember. Its remarkable how gender critical feminists always need to centre their own subjective preferences even on the self identification of others.

Its an illiberal movement to its core.

If you're imposing your self identification on others and expecting them to accept it, then it becomes an issue for society.

It's illiberal to impose your self identification on society and expect society to bend to your wishes.

Where is your consideration for the people who don't believe that a man is a woman just because he says he is?

Shedmistress · Today 08:44

sweetnsourr · Today 08:26

The context is self identification.

Self ID was tried in the UK and failed.

Just like you did when you referred to Chloe as 'her'.

Shortshriftandlethal · Today 08:45

sweetnsourr · Today 08:02

According to the gender critical movement sex stereotypes exist so you may want to have a word with them.

Stereotypes are idealised mental abstractions which are based on patterns of behaviour or ways of 'being' which have been observed - and/or social roles which have been imposed upon people by their society. But concepts and abstractions which are attached to the facts of biological sex are not the exact same thing as ''sex' itself. Thus' gender', so consciously adopted, is a purely self indulgent display for the purposes of social signalling.

2021x · Today 08:45

sweetnsourr · Today 08:34

The context is self identification & pronouns remember. Its remarkable how gender critical feminists always need to centre their own subjective preferences even on the self identification of others.

Its an illiberal movement to its core.

I am not gender-critical, and I am trans-critical.

There is nothing to be critical about gender it is simply the social expression of sex.