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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Taskmaster: if you don’t use ‘correct’ pronouns you’re a philistine…

504 replies

Sugarleaf · 24/10/2026 22:47

…Who’s stuck in the past. To be ‘cool and curious’ you need to use non- biological sex based pronouns. And this is about a ‘certain generation.’ I mean I’m 32 and think it’s bollocks.

plus, as a bonus, ‘if you don’t like me, fine, as long as you use my correct pronouns.’

ffs

Taskmaster: if you don’t use ‘correct’ pronouns you’re a philistine…
OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
overnightangel · Today 07:33

TransParentlyAnnoyed · Yesterday 00:05

Chloe's entirely correct. Learning which pronouns people use is very easy, and just basic respect. Same as learning to pronounce an unfamiliar name properly rather than just call someone what you want (something which used to be incredibly common, e.g. Martin Offiah's name was mispronounced for decades by TV pundits.)

Getting angry because someone's different to you, only announces your own limitations. The world's a beautiful, complex place and none of us know everything. So listen, learn, educate yourself.

If someone demands I lie, I’m not going to

sweetnsourr · Today 07:35

OldCrone · Today 07:28

Why? What's the point?

I mean, most of us just live our lives and don't consciously think about whether or not we are conforming to gender stereotypes.

Why would anyone waste time on actually thinking about this, let alone acting it out and giving themselves a set of gendered rules to live by? It just seems insane to me.

Same reason why religious people make religion a central part of their identity, they consider it an individually defining feature.

And don't kid yourself, cis people spend the better part of their lives catering to their gendered inclinations hence sex stereotypes. Its central to most people & why wouldn't it be? Evolutionary pressures to mate are a necessary part of human survival.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · Today 07:36

sweetnsourr · Yesterday 22:42

Let's assess:

At the point of an inability to use google to define sex stereotypes or find out the name of a co worker points to either retardation or trolling.

You’ve really outdone yourselves this time & that's really saying something.

At the point of an inability to use google to define sex stereotypes or find out the name of a co worker points to either retardation or trolling.

Oh dear, same old same old. You can’t provide an example to explain your argument so you get angry at women.

nicepotoftea · Today 07:38

sweetnsourr · Today 07:25

By virtue of being GENDER CRITICAL you believe that trans people perpetuate sex stereotypes. In other words, you believe gender exists. Do you even understand your own ideology?

I’m afraid it’s your argument that I don’t understand.

Chloe in the OP is not noticeably different to any other woman, so how are gendered norms relevant if pronouns are just a personal choice?

StealthTroublemaker · Today 07:39

sweetnsourr · Today 07:35

Same reason why religious people make religion a central part of their identity, they consider it an individually defining feature.

And don't kid yourself, cis people spend the better part of their lives catering to their gendered inclinations hence sex stereotypes. Its central to most people & why wouldn't it be? Evolutionary pressures to mate are a necessary part of human survival.

Edited

But they don’t! The CIS are determined to break gender stereotypes by getting more women into the construction industry and related trades. There’s whole campaigns and everything!! You should check it out.

BackToLurk · Today 07:44

sweetnsourr · Today 07:21

Clue: Gender.

They live according to the gendered norms/roles/behviour/ associated to the opposite sex.

Chloe Petts is non-binary. Is Chloe living according to all the gendered norms/roles/behaviour/ associated with both sexes? Or just some of them? Maybe if you were capable of naming just a handful of them we could see. However you don’t seem able to illustrate your argument.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · Today 07:44

sweetnsourr · Yesterday 22:50

A legitimate aim is a justification used by an employer or service provider to defend a rule or practice that causes a disadvantage. 1, 2]

That’s completely the opposite of your earlier claim about disadvantage:

sweetnsourr · Yesterday 21:57
And yet identity is relevant to needs & rights otherwise we wouldn't have anti discrimination laws. Sex isn't an automatic right to a space but requires proofs of disadvantage that meet a threshold subject to context.

sweetnsourr · Today 07:45

StealthTroublemaker · Today 07:29

Nah bud. You said
The foundational 'check list' so to speak is rooted in typical sexed behaviours

So if these behaviours are socially constructed, then are you saying it is society that determines if one is a man or a woman depending on behaviour? In that case, self determination cannot exist can it? If one can only determine whether one is a man on a woman based on arbitrary standards decreed by “society”, then one is not using self determination, but the determination laid down by society….

Nah bud. You said
The foundational 'check list' so to speak is rooted in typical sexed behaviours

AAAAAnd the other bit?

"The foundational 'check list' so to speak is rooted in typical sexed behaviours that society has deemed to be more associated to one sex than the other."

You’ve already been corrected on this before.

So if these behaviours are socially constructed, then are you saying it is society that determines if one is a man or a woman depending on behaviour?

Society categorically distinguishes men from women based on norms/roles & typical behaviours.

If one can only determine whether one is a man on a woman based on arbitrary standards decreed by “society”, then one is not using self determination, but the determination laid down by society….

No because an individual isn't compelled to follow social categorisations. That's upto the individual's values what category (sex or gender) they feel defines them.

OldCrone · Today 07:47

sweetnsourr · Today 07:35

Same reason why religious people make religion a central part of their identity, they consider it an individually defining feature.

And don't kid yourself, cis people spend the better part of their lives catering to their gendered inclinations hence sex stereotypes. Its central to most people & why wouldn't it be? Evolutionary pressures to mate are a necessary part of human survival.

Edited

people spend the better part of their lives catering to their gendered inclinations

Really? I don't think I've ever done this. How would I know if I was "catering to my gendered inclinations"? Can you give some examples?

BackToLurk · Today 07:48

Have we had the check list yet? Are there different check lists for different countries? Can we change ‘gender’ just by crossing borders?

StealthTroublemaker · Today 07:50

sweetnsourr · Today 07:45

Nah bud. You said
The foundational 'check list' so to speak is rooted in typical sexed behaviours

AAAAAnd the other bit?

"The foundational 'check list' so to speak is rooted in typical sexed behaviours that society has deemed to be more associated to one sex than the other."

You’ve already been corrected on this before.

So if these behaviours are socially constructed, then are you saying it is society that determines if one is a man or a woman depending on behaviour?

Society categorically distinguishes men from women based on norms/roles & typical behaviours.

If one can only determine whether one is a man on a woman based on arbitrary standards decreed by “society”, then one is not using self determination, but the determination laid down by society….

No because an individual isn't compelled to follow social categorisations. That's upto the individual's values what category (sex or gender) they feel defines them.

So if “woman” and “man” mean different things to different people, how do they know they are a woman or a man? If anyone of either sex can say that they align with an attribute deemed by society to be for the other sex, surely those attributes will become unisex so not able to be used to determine whether someone is a woman or a man? For example, childcare has been an attribute deemed by society to be “women’s work”. If more men than women take on childcare, then it will become a male “sexed behaviour” won’t it and therefore not useful to determine if someone is a man or a woman. Same with long hair and dresses….

nicepotoftea · Today 07:51

sweetnsourr · Today 07:29

Depends why they don't. Fear or social rejection might be reasons.

Or if it’s all down to personal choice why are gendered norms relevant?

Because that's how society categorises typical behaviours. Trans people didn't make up gendered categories society did.

What if they are just being themselves, but it’s patently obvious to everyone that they are a man, and everyone treats them as a man?

nicepotoftea · Today 07:53

StealthTroublemaker · Today 07:50

So if “woman” and “man” mean different things to different people, how do they know they are a woman or a man? If anyone of either sex can say that they align with an attribute deemed by society to be for the other sex, surely those attributes will become unisex so not able to be used to determine whether someone is a woman or a man? For example, childcare has been an attribute deemed by society to be “women’s work”. If more men than women take on childcare, then it will become a male “sexed behaviour” won’t it and therefore not useful to determine if someone is a man or a woman. Same with long hair and dresses….

The hair length thing is going to be very confusing for anyone who grew up during the seventies and eighties.

OldCrone · Today 07:54

sweetnsourr · Today 07:35

Same reason why religious people make religion a central part of their identity, they consider it an individually defining feature.

And don't kid yourself, cis people spend the better part of their lives catering to their gendered inclinations hence sex stereotypes. Its central to most people & why wouldn't it be? Evolutionary pressures to mate are a necessary part of human survival.

Edited

Is this what you're referring to that you believe is a central part of most women's lives?

sweetnsourr · Today 00:47
Oh yeah lingerie, micro minis, G string bikinis, gym scrunchie shorts, breast augmentation & exaggerated gym pumped arses

nicepotoftea · Today 07:57

BackToLurk · Today 07:48

Have we had the check list yet? Are there different check lists for different countries? Can we change ‘gender’ just by crossing borders?

Edited

I think you would have to conclude that this is so.

Its great to have this in depth discussion, but I m not sure that Chloe would find our overseas contributor helpful.

Not coming across as moving with the times at all.

OldCrone · Today 08:00

sweetnsourr · Today 07:45

Nah bud. You said
The foundational 'check list' so to speak is rooted in typical sexed behaviours

AAAAAnd the other bit?

"The foundational 'check list' so to speak is rooted in typical sexed behaviours that society has deemed to be more associated to one sex than the other."

You’ve already been corrected on this before.

So if these behaviours are socially constructed, then are you saying it is society that determines if one is a man or a woman depending on behaviour?

Society categorically distinguishes men from women based on norms/roles & typical behaviours.

If one can only determine whether one is a man on a woman based on arbitrary standards decreed by “society”, then one is not using self determination, but the determination laid down by society….

No because an individual isn't compelled to follow social categorisations. That's upto the individual's values what category (sex or gender) they feel defines them.

No because an individual isn't compelled to follow social categorisations.

Exactly. Nobody has to conform to stereotypes. Nobody has to label themselves according to stereotypes either.

That's upto the individual's values what category (sex or gender) they feel defines them.

Not quite. As you say, gender and sex are different. Anyone can choose a gender label if they want to. Sex is biologically determined and fixed. It's not a choice and it can't be changed.

sweetnsourr · Today 08:01

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · Today 07:30

When the law says legitimate aim, that’s what it means. There are many legitimate aims that are not the same as ‘disadvantages’, that’s why they don’t use the word ‘disadvantage’.

A women’s menopause group has the legitimate aim of providing support to women in menopause. It can legally exclude men as men never experience menopause. Wanting to discuss menopause away from men is not to do with ‘disadvantage’.

I think you would save yourself a lot of time if you recognised that people and laws use specific words and phrases because they want to impart specific information and achieve specific things. When you start to claim they mean or say something they are not in order to try and back one of your points, it just exposes the gaping chasms and contradictions in your position.

I’m still bemused at the fact that you label asking for an example that illustrates your point as ‘trolling’. That is a very ‘unusual’ approach to arguing and ultimately here will be unsuccessful as you can see.

When the law says legitimate aim, that’s what it means. There are many legitimate aims that are not the same as ‘disadvantages’, that’s why they don’t use the word ‘disadvantage’.

I said the legitimate aim was required as a justification used by an employer or service provider to defend an action that causes a disadvantage under the UK Equality Act 2010 that was disputed & I corrected. In other words a disadvantage needs to occur in the first place that can be legally justified via a legitimate aim.

I’m still bemused at the fact that you label asking for an example that illustrates your point as ‘trolling’. That is a very ‘unusual’ approach to arguing and ultimately here will be unsuccessful as you can see.

I'm not here to answer bad faith questions where either the enquirer already knows the answer because THAT'S WHAT UNDERPINS THEIR IDEOLOGY or can look it up themselves.

That you are "bemused" that your fellow travellers are expected to use google to answer their own basic questions certainly gives insight into where their ignorance emanates from.

sweetnsourr · Today 08:02

OldCrone · Today 07:33

Society doesn't categorise people according to gendered behaviours. Society categorises people according to sex. Which is real.

Only genderists think gendered behaviours are more important than sex.

According to the gender critical movement sex stereotypes exist so you may want to have a word with them.

OldCrone · Today 08:05

sweetnsourr · Today 08:02

According to the gender critical movement sex stereotypes exist so you may want to have a word with them.

Of course sex stereotypes exist. I've never said they don't. Did you quote the wrong post?

StealthTroublemaker · Today 08:07

sweetnsourr · Today 08:02

According to the gender critical movement sex stereotypes exist so you may want to have a word with them.

These sex stereotypes, are toy still talking about male violence? But as humans cannot change sex, you seem to be saying TIM are just as prone to committing violence as any other male? So therefore should be treated as any other male and excluded from female spaces. Awesome. You’re in total agreement with GC feminists.

Helleofabore · Today 08:09

sweetnsourr · Today 00:47
Oh yeah lingerie, micro minis, G string bikinis, gym scrunchie shorts, breast augmentation & exaggerated gym pumped arses

This is really something to see of a poster who is telling everyone about feminism.

There have been other usernames who have used similar disparagement of women and girls and fascination of breast size.

sweetnsourr · Today 08:10

nicepotoftea · Today 07:38

I’m afraid it’s your argument that I don’t understand.

Chloe in the OP is not noticeably different to any other woman, so how are gendered norms relevant if pronouns are just a personal choice?

Chloe identifies as "gender non conforming" & uses 'they" "them". So gender stereotypes doesn't apply to her.

sweetnsourr · Today 08:13

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · Today 07:44

That’s completely the opposite of your earlier claim about disadvantage:

sweetnsourr · Yesterday 21:57
And yet identity is relevant to needs & rights otherwise we wouldn't have anti discrimination laws. Sex isn't an automatic right to a space but requires proofs of disadvantage that meet a threshold subject to context.

Bro, what do you think proofs of disadvantage refers to?

Clue: Legitimate aims.

Shedmistress · Today 08:15

sweetnsourr · Today 08:10

Chloe identifies as "gender non conforming" & uses 'they" "them". So gender stereotypes doesn't apply to her.

You mean they/them? Not her?

Transphobe!

MostlyPeaceful · Today 08:16

sweetnsourr · Yesterday 22:09

Can you give an example of an identity which is relevant to the Equality Act?

Religious beliefs.

Sex isn't an automatic right to a space I think you’ll find that the Supreme Court says it is.

Only if the contextual criteria is met so its not just about sex but disadvantage.

What ‘proofs of disadvantage’ do you mean? Can you give an example of which contexts these would or would not be applicable?

27
(1)
A person does not contravene section 29, so far as relating to sex discrimination, by providing a service only to persons of one sex if—
(a)
any of the conditions in sub-paragraphs (2) to (7) is satisfied, and
(b)
the limited provision is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.
(2)
The condition is that only persons of that sex have need of the service.
(3)
The condition is that—
(a)
the service is also provided jointly for persons of both sexes, and
(b)
the service would be insufficiently effective were it only to be provided jointly.
(4)
The condition is that—
(a)
a joint service for persons of both sexes would be less effective, and
(b)
the extent to which the service is required by persons of each sex makes it not reasonably practicable to provide separate services.
(5)
The condition is that the service is provided at a place which is, or is part of—
(a)
a hospital, or
(b)
another establishment for persons requiring special care, supervision or attention.
(6)
The condition is that—
(a)
the service is provided for, or is likely to be used by, two or more persons at the same time, and
(b)
the circumstances are such that a person of one sex might reasonably object to the presence of a person of the opposite sex.
(7)
The condition is that—
(a)
there is likely to be physical contact between a person (A) to whom the service is provided and another person (B), and
(b)
B might reasonably object if A were not of the same sex as B.
(8)
This paragraph applies to a person exercising a public function in relation to the provision of a service as it applies to the person providing the service.

Religious belief is an identity?

"I identify as a Christian" rather than "I am a Christian".