Dr Upton in the news again

[Sparkyduchess]

I see the lovely Dr Upton is in the news again, who didn’t see this coming 🙄

i feel for the woman facing this, and troubling that she was worried she’d be bullied into accepting treatment from him

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-16235793/Doctor-quit-UK-Peggie-trans-row-centre-gender-storm-Australia-known-Lis.html

Absolutely.

It's one thing to be told, 'I'm really sorry, I know you have requested a female Dr but there are none available - I am male but I can provide a female chaperone and you can have a family member present too', it's quite another to be lied to by a Dr who believes and tell you 'yes I'm female' - someone you are supposed to trust to respect your body, your privacy and your dignity.

I see people are still trying to smear Sandie Peggie as homophobic, which is pretty desperate. Her daughter is a lesbian and was in court repeatedly to support her. You can read the press interviews about their caring mother-daughter relationship.

Yes, I'd assumed it was this. The female patient asked for a female doctor and was told hulking great Theo was the female doctor.

Under those circumstances, the outrage makes sense. Husband staying with her because any trust in the hospital has disappeared.

Yes, lots of men are lovely until you try saying "no" to them.

No woman should need to hide behind religion to be respected in her request for single sex care.

All women deserve dignity, and privacy, shouldn't matter if they are a young Christian woman wearing a mini or an elderly Muslim woman wearing a burka.

Women deserve dignity and respect,

And also, for any of the regulars who think women must be nice to deserve privileges (clearly they're not rights, are they?). FOTTFSOFAWYGTFOSM.

That is fucked up intimidation. Again, I am sorry that you experienced that.

I never encountered a female doctor until I moved to a capital city. We only had male doctors in our small country town. But even there, we had an English doctor and a Chinese doctor in the 70s and we appreciated the fact that they were there. Because very few Australian doctors would come to our area.

I remember discussions about rotating young newly qualified doctors from Australian unis out into rural areas just to fill positions.

There is sadly, people who believe the ‘people taking out jobs’ line. The reality is, there have been legitimate shortages that needed filling. I assume there still is.

I hope that you were supported when this happened to you.

However, in saying that, there is a legitimate discussion about the fact that a male doctor who has said that he would present himself as a female doctor if someone requested it may have done so in this case. It is more plausible that this is the case than someone in a town with likely a small established population of British born people would be objecting to his immigration status.

Your alternative assumes the female patient to be racist based on your horrific treatment. The alternative is that NSW Health and the federal Dept of Health policies need to be revised either for staffing rotations including adequate female doctors or to ensure no male doctor presents themselves to be accepted when a female doctor has been requested.

One of my friends earlier this year had her PTSD triggered because she specifically requested a female health professional for an intimate procedure when in a capital city hospital and male with a transgender identity came to do it. She felt she couldn’t complain in any way so just got it over with and then spent months recovering. She felt she couldn’t reject this person because of the news reports. There is no way she would ever make a formal complaint because she is not in a position to deal with a negative to her outcome.

This was not NSW, so this incident could be an indication that this is an Australia wide issue and needs to be addressed. How will it be addressed if women’s concerns are hand waved away ?

If the story is that Upton fully respected that female patient’s decision and did not treat her and there were no repercussions to that patient at all, then that would be a good outcome. I hope that Upton did respect the patient’s wishes and this is, as you say, a non event.

I've spent time in Port Macquarie, it is full of retirees.

Part of the this inaccuracy comes from use of the disliked and increasingly sidelined 'LGBTQIA' abbreviation.

When I read that, it's a signal to me that the person's probably going to talk up trans ideology.

The BBC style guide, recently updated, now says “care is needed with the use of umbrella terms”.

It says that, where possible, initialisms should be avoided : “The issues affecting lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people can be very different and the more specific we can be with our language the better.”

Yes, I listened to him in court. He came across as smarmy, arrogant and VERY patronising.

Actually, I am speaking from personal experience though. Our major regional hospital was about that size. It would have been a 90 minute to 2 hour flight to airlift someone from that hospital to a hospital with more beds (that doesn’t cover the time it took to get to that particular hospital either before rerouting). I thought that was well understood by most Australians, but maybe it isn’t.

I didn’t expect to hear our major regional hospital with the comparative bed number being described as tiny by someone who lives in Australia. But there you go. The local 30 bed hospital that services the area I grew up in, yes. That is tiny. The 100 bed hospital an hour by ambo, could still be ‘tiny’. But the major regional hospital I spent months in as a toddler and where most of our family have had to go at some time or other, which was considerable distance from our home ‘tiny’? I guess so, if you are used to much larger hospitals.

Yeah you have pretty much nailed the confusion.

The single sex spaces question is a bit more nuanced. For example, if Buck Angel walked into a women's toilet, I would feel pretty scared, but if Elliot Page did, I don't think I would care.

Both TG and TS people are mentally ill with body dysphoria, but only TG people think that their illness is reality and don't have the emotional maturity to see that they are the ones causing issues. It is a big feature of narcissism, for example, to act like a toddler. TS people know they are mentally unwell, and don't hold society responsible for fixing that because it's a problem with them, not society.

I think the most dangerous part of all this is Self-ID. Without that, people who want to transition don't have to go through therapy and assessment, which would hugely lower the risk to women. Men who wish to access female spaces because they are peverts would be rooted out early on in the process.

If we could overturn Self-ID, then the risks posed by TG men would go away, and the risks to body dysmorphic teens and non-gender-conforming kids would go away also.

Tell your posts that.

Google AI tells me there are about 55,000 attendances per year at the Emergency Department in Port Macquarie Base Hospital. That's 150 patients per day in the ED. In UK terms this would be a small department but still with 3-4 doctors on shift at any one time.

Sorry I thought you'd looked it up. I love how we can all look up things these days to debunk the rubbish other people write!

Oh come on, we are hugely grateful to the poster for squeezing us into her hectic social schedule to share her pearls of wisdom with us

This is true. There is so much info out there now and you don’t even have to trawl through policy documents to find it out.

But the article also referred to the bed numbers too. And I did look up the bed numbers in the regional hospital I referred to in my home region as I thought, hang on.. something doesn’t sit right with that statement

Theres a danger as in what the hormones are doing to young people's bodies.

But I can't help feel there are perverts using this for kicks and sooner or later seeing won't be enough.

Not that long ago there was a PE teacher done for sexual assault, my friend was taught by him 30 years ago as said he was creepy then. But its like it took years before he acted.
And I've heard other similar stories.

I honestly wish I had the time to constantly post on topics I’m against and don’t like. It baffles me. How does one manage this with such a busy life?

I think the most dangerous part of all this is Self-ID. Without that, people who want to transition don't have to go through therapy and assessment, which would hugely lower the risk to women. Men who wish to access female spaces because they are peverts would be rooted out early on in the process.

If we could overturn Self-ID, then the risks posed by TG men would go away, and the risks to body dysmorphic teens and non-gender-conforming kids would go away also.

I agree with you it's the most dangerous part. I don't agree it would remove the problems.

Are women supposed to look at the obvious male that's just come into the changing rooms and demand to see their GRC?

One man in women's spaces removes the ability to challenge any man.

I don't think the autogynephiles would find it as difficult to get a GRC as you think

You may be mistaking the condition, perhaps. They don't want to live as women to get access to women. They genuinely want to live as women because that way they turn themselves on. And that would not prevent them getting a GRC.

And I don't see any lessening in the risk to children and teens.

This nails it.

The usual stuff about 'there may not be a female medic available/hospital small' etc is irrelevant in this situation.

I'm going by the statement shared in the article from Women’s Forum Australia CEO Rachael Wong, who I would assume checked her facts on this: the woman was NOT told that there was no female medic available, and asked if she would then accept a man out of necessity. I'd presume if this was the case it would have made no difference if it was Upton or Jim from Xray or Ben from Oncology.

It seems clear that she requested a same sex hcp, was told yes, and then sent a man who either hoped to deceive her against her consent, or wished her to join him in a willing suspension of disbelief against her consent.

That would be the issue.

The intentional deception.

The ignoring and attempt to force her consent.

And the absolute abandonment of her needs and history and interests that led her to request a same sex hcp, in order to further the personal interests and agendas of a man employed to place her wellbeing above his own.

Exactly.
Did Upton not do the same thing to a woman in Fife, she asked for a woman and was sent a big guy pretending to be a woman?

Its a different scenario to being told, sorry we don't have a female Doc, but we can give you a male with chaperone (he might even be in pink scrubs)

It seems clear that she requested a same sex hcp, was told yes, and then sent a man who either hoped to deceive her against her consent, or wished her to join him in a willing suspension of disbelief against her consent.

Third and grottier option added on reflection: or wished to put himself and a woman into the position where a woman may reject him and kick off about it, for whatever reason. As to put a woman into this sort of situation that ends in confrontation once, and go through a major courtcase and all the drama once may be considered unfortunate, but to quite intentionally do it twice.....

How long ago were you a toddler? We’re not discussing the situation of Australia decades ago, but what is happening now.

Port Macquarie Hospital is not a major tertiary hospital. The nearest tertiary hospital, John Hunter (3 and half hours drive away), has just under 900 beds. John Hunter isn’t even located in a major city, but draws patients from a number of regional areas.

You don’t need to play ‘who has the best knowledge of Australia’.

If carefully managed forms of chaperoning became the norm, people like Upton may fade away. They are in it for a sexual kick derived from the awkwardness the woman feels. Seen it many times as far back as the 90s where trans-identified males were 'introduced' to their workplace as their 'new gender' - most of them looked like a brickie with lippy on, and plainly derived stimulation from how uncomfortable women colleagues felt.

Let's not be under a delusion that an 'everyone wins' situation is tenable when there's such bad faith. Crafting scenarios that poop in their soup is the goal.

Your anecdote about the PE teacher reminds me of a specialist doctor whom a friend of mine consulted, and who was later convicted of abusing a number of female patients. My friend had found him creepy and had disliked some of his “jokey” comments, even though he hadn’t abused her at all.

You see the same pattern as with flashers - it’s less the harmless crime of a sad old man that we were led to believe when I was a teen/young woman and more a would-be sex offender gradually testing limits and seeing what he can get away with.