Anyone else seeing LWD Director Viv Pointon’s posts about Sonia Sodha?

[IWantToMakeTea]

Did anyone catch the comments LWD director Viv Pointon made about Sonia Sodha? She’s getting massive backlash online for explicitly targeting Sonia’s heritage and ethnicity.

Just to be 100% clear, I am and remain completely gender-critical— but I did end up leaving the LWD and WRN groups a while ago simply because of how some people, like Viv, were behaving behind the scenes.

The group chats just felt incredibly messy, bitchy, and unmoderated. Instead of being a supportive or organised space, they were frequently filled with general nastiness towards each other, a bizarre amount of hate directed at former Labour MP Rosie Duffield, and some shocking antisemitic comments. Viv herself was often a central part of that unpleasant atmosphere. A lot of the time, it was just constant chatty bullshit rather than anything actually relevant to GC campaign work. There were some bitchy LWD messages that got leaked to a newspaper a few months back. These are grown women behaving like playground bullies. I was going to go to the conference and attend the fringe group, but I decided not to go, though I might watch the videos on YouTube later.

Being in those groups was really eye-opening because it showed me the GC movement isn't 'love all around'. Maybe I was just a bit naive! Even though the core beliefs are massively important, seeing a director behave like that online to Sonia Sodha just reminds me that some people in the movement can end up doing more harm than good with their behaviour.

What does everyone else think?

No nerves hit here.

Taking the piss.

@Heggettypeg indeed - the oft quoted line that there is more genetic variation between members of a so called race then there is between different racial groups. It’s far,far easier to stick to discussing the biological reality of sex (even with the occasional forays into the genetics of DSD’s) ! There are plenty of this theme of thread to be found elsewhere on mumsnet and they always get a big response.

Yet, certain ethnicities or 'races' are more prone to certain types of ailment and/or physical conditions, as but one example...there does seems to be an element of genetic coding or whatever you want to call it.

Statistical Frequencies: While distinct gene variants do not define separate races, the frequency of certain genetic variations (such as those influencing lactose tolerance or statistical predispositions to specific regional diseases) can differ across ancestral populations

How can any country be tied to any ethnicity?

I live in country A, was born in country B, have a mother from country C. Which one determines my 'ethnicity'?

Unfortunately, all-women organizations tend to have a lot of this, unless they have a really exceptional leader.

All-men organizations are just as bad but in their own, different way.

Seems like the best is around a 50:50 balance.

The problem is ascribing a particular culture to a particular country.

You only have to start a discussion on the relative merits and demerits of, say, Worcestershire Sauce and Henderson's Relish to see that people like to separate themselves from those others and identify with these people like us. Many of us don't want to be told what we're supposed to like or what group we're too common or la-di-da to belong in. I'm not Asian because I like my food spicy, and I'm not un-English because I'm not bothered if I never drink tea again.

Yes. Ashkenazi Jews, for example, have higher rates of certain health conditions (the BRCA1 and BRCA2 mutations are more common, among others). It seems pointless to pretend that that isn't the case, because this type of knowledge is incredibly useful.

Viv and her bigotry are far more common in GC circles than many would like to admit. There's practically hero(ine) worship of KJKM for crying out loud - and she's got some truly awful views. But she hates trans people so people defend her. Unless these people are kicked out and publicly challenge and disavowed - the entire GC cause is tainted. Good on Sonia.

What do you imagine they are going to be ‘kicked out of’?

The community. While others continue to welcome them in, there's no defence to the criticism that GC land isn't a place for the most horrific bigotry. Or do you disagree and think that those with racist views should be welcomed?

Strange that GCs are always being accused of being racist adjacent as well as transphobes, when if you read the manifestos of so many trans activists, you'll find the extremism is absolutely baked in on their side.

There isn’t a “community” or a ‘GC land’. You’ll be delighted to know lots of high-profile ‘GC feminists’ called her out though.

There is. JKR offering to financially support KJK for example. Despite her disgusting racist comments and campaigns. And I was aware - I have more in common with those sensible women than the extremists here. And vice versa.

Please do explain why Sonia is wrong about Viv's racism?

There are a variety of views, as evidenced by both this thread and the responses on Twitter to Viv. I’m guessing a lot of trans activists have bought so fully into the necessity of a monolithic set of views, they find people agreeing on some things while disagreeing about others difficult to conceptualise.

There is indeed lots of high-profile GC feminists calling Viv out. Glad you acknowledge that.

I think most people would find racism abhorrent and wouldn't tolerate it. Not sure that's particularly controversial.

I don't agree with what VP says because IMO ideas like Englishness or Britishness can refer to legal nationalities, ancestry, residency OR feeling and identity.
But then again I don't think it's racist either. She has just focused on one sense of the word rather than another.

Oh I don’t know. The trans-friendly Greens have made racism party policy.

I agree. Look at that! We've agreed twice. Do let me know if you feel the need to have a lay down in a darkened room with the smelling salts.