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Two-year-old euthanised in Netherlands in first assisted dying case of its kind

555 replies

IwantToRetire · 28/09/2026 19:01

I'm not going to select any part of the article but just post the link for those who want to read
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/netherlands-infant-2-euthanised-assisted-37709218

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15
Somuchgoo · 29/09/2026 13:31

Dollymylove · 29/09/2026 13:15

Surely its unlikely for a 22 week foetus to survive?

In a good unit 25-35% survive to discharge. Obviously many (though not all) will have lifelong consequences.

But bear in mind there's a huge difference between 22+0 and 22+6.

Survival at 21 weeks is rare, but possible (earliest survivor is 21 weeks exactly, and he's doing well, though not without impact). The other side at 23 weeks, survival shoots to 55%.

Somuchgoo · 29/09/2026 13:44

In this case though, at 26 weeks, survival is 70-90%, only 10% end up with a severe disability (which includes deafness or blindness, which are severe but you can have a good life with).

This little one was very unlucky, but 26 weeks isn't on the edges of viability any more.

NullaEffugium · 29/09/2026 13:50

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 29/09/2026 13:25

There's a very big difference between a child in an iron lung who is otherwise compos mentis and not in pain, and a child with a severe extremely painful condition that can't be cured @NullaEffugium
"We might one day possibly find something to help" is cold comfort to someone in unending pain and discomfort. When you are in intense physical pain, subjectively the future doesnt exist. All that exists is there here and now, lurching from one moment to the next, in agony. If there is objectively medically no hope of surcease it is an extreme cruelty of the worst sort to force someone to keep living.

Sorry, but they have pain relief even for a fetus in the womb and I live with chronic pain myself so I don’t believe the unending unendurable pain with no break and no hope is a reality of today.

AlonsoMosley · 29/09/2026 13:51

MarieDeGournay · 29/09/2026 10:27

This is an important point, but it's also worth pointing out that quality of life [self-assessed by a mentally competent person] is about more than pain.
Its important to say that because the anti-choice side often quote good hospice care [which everyone supports] and pain control as an argument against the need for assisted dying.

There are uncontrollable symptoms other than pain which, after decades of suffering, can make life unbearable to a mentally competent person, especially when combined with other conditions which worsen with age.

A person who is not terminally ill may reach a point after decades of endurance of suffering from an accumulation of conditions, and facing failing general health, where they say
'Enough. I can't go on. I've fought the good fight and made the best of my life. No more endurance left.'

Hospice care, when they may in fact stay alive for a long time, and pain control, when pain is not the deciding factor, are not useful or relevant to people in this situation.

I can see your argument here @MarieDeGournay.

In this case though, I think that drugs should be self administered.

I am very uncomfortable with the profound shift where now, doctors can kill.

kxeil · 29/09/2026 13:56

@AlonsoMosley “I am very uncomfortable with the profound shift where now, doctors can kill.”

If it ends severe suffering isn’t it humane?

backformoreofthesame · 29/09/2026 14:03

You mean treat people like animals ?

NotrialNodeal · 29/09/2026 14:09

kxeil · 29/09/2026 13:56

@AlonsoMosley “I am very uncomfortable with the profound shift where now, doctors can kill.”

If it ends severe suffering isn’t it humane?

How you define humane will be different to how I define humane; this is why there is huge debate over whether euthanasia is actually 'humane'. Critics and supporters hold fundamentally different views on what constitutes moral and compassionate care at the end of life.

NullaEffugium · 29/09/2026 14:14

I am sorry for all you went through, ptsd is awful. I’m glad your son is doing well.

This isn’t a feminist issue. It’s a human issue.
I think this is both a feminist issue and a human issue.

kxeil · 29/09/2026 14:24

NotrialNodeal · 29/09/2026 14:09

How you define humane will be different to how I define humane; this is why there is huge debate over whether euthanasia is actually 'humane'. Critics and supporters hold fundamentally different views on what constitutes moral and compassionate care at the end of life.

I would define humane as showing kindness care and sympathy especially when people are suffering. I would see euthanasia as a kindness in this case. It is a merciful way to stop severe, untreatable pain and suffering.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 29/09/2026 14:31

NullaEffugium · 29/09/2026 13:50

Sorry, but they have pain relief even for a fetus in the womb and I live with chronic pain myself so I don’t believe the unending unendurable pain with no break and no hope is a reality of today.

You're wrong.

"It works for me so it works for everyone" isnt the way things are.

kxeil · 29/09/2026 14:41

NullaEffugium · 29/09/2026 13:50

Sorry, but they have pain relief even for a fetus in the womb and I live with chronic pain myself so I don’t believe the unending unendurable pain with no break and no hope is a reality of today.

Just because you don’t experience unending unendurable pain doesn’t mean other people don’t suffer from it.

In severe cases chronic pain becomes "intractable," meaning it does not respond well to standard medical treatments.

BirdLandedonmyHead · 29/09/2026 14:48

People need to remember the medical staff and family will have a lot better idea of the pain and life quality of this poor child than random people on the internet condemning them.

ForeverDelayedEpiphany · 29/09/2026 14:53

I agree. And to be honest I think I probably had a neurological disadvantage as a result of my prematurity too, and I'd say I'm sure I have ADHD from the in utero heroin, not to mention possible greater susceptibility to psychotropic medication induced side effects (thanks, movement disorder I now have from the off label antipsychotic!)😳😑😢

So, premature babies do probably need a lot of possible extra care over a lifetime. That devastating decision to end the poor child's life was never going to be an easy one for anyone 😔

NullaEffugium · 29/09/2026 15:18

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 29/09/2026 14:31

You're wrong.

"It works for me so it works for everyone" isnt the way things are.

Please don’t put in quotations anything I did not write.
I am aware of how things are, I actually live with chronic pain. You however are assuming that chronic pain means it would be kinder to kill people like me, even children. Perhaps you should be listening and not assuming, because you were the one saying that unending pain for other than someone in the end stages of a terminal disease exists is unendurable and there is nothing that can be done. Both aren’t true, there is pain reliever medications and CBT where you can train your mind to ignore certain nerve ending signals so the pain becomes background noise.

Do you have an example of someone in pure agony 24/7 where medication doesn’t touch the pain, and they are not terminally ill and in the end stages but only chronically ill and their expected life span is many more years?

NullaEffugium · 29/09/2026 15:20

kxeil · 29/09/2026 14:41

Just because you don’t experience unending unendurable pain doesn’t mean other people don’t suffer from it.

In severe cases chronic pain becomes "intractable," meaning it does not respond well to standard medical treatments.

And there is no hope? No research into other means of pain relief? A friend of mine also has chronic pain and is in a wheelchair, she finds hydro therapy at a heated pool to be really helpful. Who are you to say there is no hope?

NullaEffugium · 29/09/2026 15:22

To be clear, I’m against a doctor or relative deciding my pain is too much. That’s not for them to decide.

kxeil · 29/09/2026 15:31

@NullaEffugium As a consenting adult, no one is going to kill you against your will. The child in this case couldn’t consent so doctors and family did what they thought was best for him. The child had a severely compromised quality of life.

Everyone on this planet will die one day. Keeping people alive at all costs is cruel.

Kirbert2 · 29/09/2026 15:33

NullaEffugium · 29/09/2026 13:11

I don’t think modern medicine has gone too far, I think it hasn’t gone far enough yet.

It always starts with life saving and then it develops quality of life improvements over later years. Do you know the last child Polio victim who needed an iron lung to breath just passed away? Martha Lillard contracted polio in 1953 at age 5. She then lived until age 78, passing away this past June.

Initially medicine meant these children had to stay in the iron lung all the time except for a few minutes here and there for hygiene and nappy changes.

Later, they had better medication so these now young adults only needed to sleep in them at night and so their lives started. Then they developed other better, smaller and portable ventilators and ways to wean some off needing them.

Too late for them did we get a vaccine. But isn’t it good we didn’t look at this girl at age 5 and think, hm better to euthanise her. It was the desire to give her a better life that inspired the medical innovations that did in fact give her a chance for a long and full life- she married twice and had pet dogs, she painted and made friends.

If we look at children in similar states where current medicine isn’t there yet- we can well write them off and say god that’s awful how can anyone, much less a child live like that?

I think it’s better to push to have medicine go further and increase quality of life rather than give up, shrug our shoulders and put them to sleep.

If all the children with polio had been euthanised because modern medicine had nothing better to offer, we would never have developed the kind of ventilators that saved the lives of thousands from other lung infections. Even when it looks hopeless, we can’t know what could be done for a child next year or a few years later.

Edited

This is how I feel.

My son is disabled because he survived but he only survived due to medical advancements as he had pretty much every single invasive medical treatment - ventilator, ecmo, chest tubes, feeding tube, TPN, dialysis, multiple surgeries and the list goes on and on.

Without those advancements, he wouldn't have stood a chance. I'm very thankful for modern medicine. Very thankful.

NullaEffugium · 29/09/2026 15:35

kxeil · 29/09/2026 15:31

@NullaEffugium As a consenting adult, no one is going to kill you against your will. The child in this case couldn’t consent so doctors and family did what they thought was best for him. The child had a severely compromised quality of life.

Everyone on this planet will die one day. Keeping people alive at all costs is cruel.

Edited

Sorry, I don’t have the same faith you do when there are cases of consenting adults being coerced into assisted dying, and one case of a Canadian woman euthanised against her express wishes because her husband got tired of caring for her and put in an emergency request for MAiD on the basis of ‘carer fatigue’
Two doctors approved it, out voting the doctor the woman had told she didn’t want it.

All the government would have to do is close down pain clinics, say that certain amounts or type of pain medication is too expensive, stop the psychological help, stop the hydro-therapy pools, stop the physio,..they can easily make pain unendurable by deciding it’s too expensive and since we can’t be cured, better off dead.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 29/09/2026 15:37

NullaEffugium · 29/09/2026 15:18

Please don’t put in quotations anything I did not write.
I am aware of how things are, I actually live with chronic pain. You however are assuming that chronic pain means it would be kinder to kill people like me, even children. Perhaps you should be listening and not assuming, because you were the one saying that unending pain for other than someone in the end stages of a terminal disease exists is unendurable and there is nothing that can be done. Both aren’t true, there is pain reliever medications and CBT where you can train your mind to ignore certain nerve ending signals so the pain becomes background noise.

Do you have an example of someone in pure agony 24/7 where medication doesn’t touch the pain, and they are not terminally ill and in the end stages but only chronically ill and their expected life span is many more years?

Perhaps you should not assume things I haven't said? I really really did not say that chronic pain means it would be kinder to kill people like you.

There's something called a scale, where at one end there are relatively low levels of pain which can be handled. There is the other end, where there are enormous levels of pain which cannot be handled. - Trigeminal Neuralgia is one disease of extreme pain, complex regional pain syndrome another. Some people with spinal injuries live with phantom pain that is extreme.

If you're seriously suggesting CBT and hyrdrotherapy as a solution to those levels of pain, I can only assume you are extremely naive. Frankly, laughably so.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 29/09/2026 15:39

I can't believe you seriously think that hydrotherapy and CBT will touch even the sides of some of the levels of pain that some people have to live with.

You really are naive.

NullaEffugium · 29/09/2026 15:57

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 29/09/2026 15:37

Perhaps you should not assume things I haven't said? I really really did not say that chronic pain means it would be kinder to kill people like you.

There's something called a scale, where at one end there are relatively low levels of pain which can be handled. There is the other end, where there are enormous levels of pain which cannot be handled. - Trigeminal Neuralgia is one disease of extreme pain, complex regional pain syndrome another. Some people with spinal injuries live with phantom pain that is extreme.

If you're seriously suggesting CBT and hyrdrotherapy as a solution to those levels of pain, I can only assume you are extremely naive. Frankly, laughably so.

You really don’t know what you are talking about because thanks to an accident, I do have TN, post head injury migraines, a painful spinal injury to the neck and my left leg was crushed so I also have constant pain due to the nerve damage.

TN is the least of my pain issues and not because of level of pain it’s like being tortured with a hot poker, but because the jolts only last a minute or two at a time. They happen a few times a week. I’ve been offered a nerve block, but I am hesitant because of my neck spinal injury. It’s certainly not something that would drive me to request a fatal dose of drugs. It’s clear you know nothing about it as you’re listing it as an example of someone in agony 24/7 with nothing that can be done to reduce the pain.

You are disingenuous to only mention the CBT - which was actually very helpful to me and the hydro-therapy which is actually helpful to my friend with an auto-immune disorder as if they were the only things I mentioned.

You are the kind of person that worries me and unfortunately you are like most people who don’t live with serious chronic pain- you under estimate not only what medicine can do for us now but also the human capacity for living well in spite of these difficult conditions.

NullaEffugium · 29/09/2026 16:00

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 29/09/2026 15:39

I can't believe you seriously think that hydrotherapy and CBT will touch even the sides of some of the levels of pain that some people have to live with.

You really are naive.

CBT is not for the pain, but for coping with it psychologically. You really know nothing. Hydro-therapy really helps some conditions. Physio helps others. Then, of course there are many pain medications and injections that are available as well as surgeries.

fuschiaproudparrot · 29/09/2026 16:01

NullaEffugium · 29/09/2026 15:22

To be clear, I’m against a doctor or relative deciding my pain is too much. That’s not for them to decide.

Doctors decide all kinds of things eg an alcoholic woman I know who was refused a liver transplant. Is that any different in reality ? We won't give you a liver transplant so you will continue like this until your body fails. We won't resuscitate you if you have a heart attack.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 29/09/2026 16:02

I know a whole lot more than you think I do, and frankly your sort of condescending arrogance is why the "I can live with it so anyone can and euthanasia is wrong" brigade is so sickeningly self-centred and wrong.

It's sister to the "Give your pain to God to glorify Him" brigade.

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