I have a family member whose “gotcha” response to the trans debate is that treating trans identified men as potential threats is exactly the same as racists who say that all Muslims are terrorists.

[tetherabumfit]

Just this really. Patronising man informing silly woman that she is bigoted in the same way a racist is.

How do I counter this in a rational, reasonable way? I’m sick of being smugly informed that I’m no better than a racist.

Have you tried all men are potential threats which is why we don't want them in women's spaces?

What's your argument?

My argument is that all men are potential threats, however they choose to present. Apparently I’m a silly woman who doesn’t understand that men in dresses are different.

This is too easy. We don't treat trans-identifying men as "potential threats". We want to treat them as men. And yes, they can be threats in the way all men can be threats (is that like racism, stating truthfully that men are more of a threat to women than other women are?).

Ask them if they really think around 90% of terrorists are Muslim.

I wonder how much he would like women and children in his toilets? And they aren’t even a threat to him.

It’s a false equivalence.

Society treats all men as if they are a threat by keeping them out of specific single sex spaces. All men, not just those who are trans identified.

Society treats everyone who goes on a plane or enters certain public spaces (theatres, arenas etc) as if they might commit an act of terrorism by mandating securing checks. Everyone regardless of race or nationality.

There are unfortunately dreadful people living among us who treat transwomen and Muslim people badly in public but that’s not what the majority of society wants. And we know this because we have laws against that behaviour.

The principle of maintaining security in single sex spaces is not transphobic any more than the principle of maintaining security at airports is racist.

All Muslims aren’t terrorists. All terrorists aren’t Muslims. But there is some degree of screening you can lawfully apply before accepting people from a terrorist-rich population across your borders and no-one thinks twice about it. But no-one is allowed to consider any form of screening of a threat-rich sex before allowed to cross female borders.

We don’t have any existing culture of excluding Muslims from any space because they may be a terrorist. We do have cultures and indeed laws that exclude all men from certain spaces. Trans women are men.

Well there are way too many examples proving that they are not "different" in the level of threat they present to women, unless by "different" he means even more of a threat. Trans-identifying men in prison are more likely than other men to have been convicted of sexual offences. The evidence is on plenty of other threads.

@tetherabumfit do you feel that all men are potential threats ? But not women, just men ?

Can he elaborate on what the difference is and how women are supposed to differentiate between the nice trans woman and the bad man in a dress?

We know that men throughout time have been willing to go to extraordinary lengths to put themselves into positions of power over women, joining the church and going through years of education to become priests, doing degrees to become doctors, training as social workers, putting on a persona every day of their lives in order to appear harmless…….

So why should we assume that the man who wears sparkly eyeshadow and calls himself Susan is a good one?

Men commit 98% of sexual offences and 88% of violent offences so much more likely to be threat to women than a woman would be

So all men are potential threats. But not women .Got it

The key word is protential - not all

not all men are rapists or threats but all men - trans or not- have the same potential that doesn’t exist in women.

And unless your friend is happy to treat all men as women, mixed sex wards and changing rooms and sport they are being slightly illogical in having some men ( but not all ) on the basis of what they say about themselves rather than what has been shown about how they act

'treating trans identified men as potential threats is exactly the same as racists who say that all Muslims are terrorists.'

I'd refuse to rise to the bait, and say as coolly as possible [difficult I know😠]
'I don't treat trans-IDing men as threats, I just treat them as men'

The majority of all the women you know will have been assaulted, harassed or worse by a man,

Very few women you know will have been assaulted, harassed or attacked by a woman.

Google the stats for pretty much any country, or time period.

Some women are potential threats. Far fewer than men. We have an easy mechanism for reducing the risk to women from men though. That is to designate some spaces - particularly those where women may be more vulnerable- as female-only. This reduces the risk to women. No risk can be reduced to zero. HTH.

Pretty much, yes. Plus, if I were alone with a man and he attacked me, I'd stand no chance of defending myself unless he were one-armed or blind, plus I had a knife and he didn't. With a woman (who didn't have a weapon) I'd stand a decent chance.

I’d probably just tell him to fuck off and stop thinking he can police women’s opinions and boundaries. I wouldn’t give a fuck if he equated me with being racist, same as I don’t give a fuck when trans rights supporters say I’m transphobic. Their opinions mean nothing to me.

In England and Wales there are approximately 85k males in prison compared to 3350 females. 96% male and just under 4% female. Violence against the person = 23000 males to 1000 females and sexual offences 15800 to 100. We know this. It doesn’t matter what religion or identity a person takes their sex is significant.

When Rebecca Paul asked for a breakdown of prisoners in 2024 who were legally male but identified as TW, gender fluid etc Nicholas Dorkins response was of the 245 they knew of, 151 were convicted of a sexual offence. Of the 50 legally female who identified as TM etc the number was 5 or fewer.

Patronising man attempts to shut down debate by shouting 'bigot' !
It seems they think we haven't heard this all before- it's tiresome isn't it.
Men are a potential threat to womens' safety, dignity and privacy, however they dress; that's the purpose of SSS.
Not all men, I know but we all know it is overwhelmingly men who commit sex/violent crimes.
Statistics bear this out, he must be aware of this, unless he goes about with blinkers on!!

Men like this love an opportunity to shut you down. He has no argument he can articulate. He can't admit that his sex are a potential threat or it would shut his argument down.
He might as well put his hands over his ears and shout bigot and sing la la la.

Ask why they can't use men's spaces.

When told they wouldn't be safe, keep drilling down for the reason.

The majority of women have received unwelcome attention from men, most women have not been assaulted by terrorists. Why doesnt he want trans women in mens space, is he transphobic?

Well yes. All men are potential threats. Even those wear in dresses and lippy.