I have a family member whose “gotcha” response to the trans debate is that treating trans identified men as potential threats is exactly the same as racists who say that all Muslims are terrorists.

[tetherabumfit]

Just this really. Patronising man informing silly woman that she is bigoted in the same way a racist is.

How do I counter this in a rational, reasonable way? I’m sick of being smugly informed that I’m no better than a racist.

Most often you cannot argue with 'Stupid'. People who buy this line ( 'single sex spaces are like racism') have done so because it offers them a ready made position and requires no critical thought whatsoever.

If you had to take odds against which sex is more likely to harm you, would you expect those odds to be equal between both sexes?
Not all men are rapists, but all rapists are men.
Safeguarding works on the principle of reducing risk to an acceptable level.

Oh come on......99% of sex based crimes are committed by males. This includes acts such as voyeurism and 'self exposure'.

The male sex drive is configured differently to the female sex drive.....it is far more opportunistic in nature; more motivated by visuals, and more pre-occupied by fetish and objectification.You don't really get women putting cameras under toilet stalls; or exposing their genitals to strangers in public, and there is no real female equivalent of cross drerssing transvestitism.

The vast majority of pornography is produced by and for men.

All men are male. Single sex spaces for women are for female people. They have been developed on account of millennia of experience of some of the differences between the sexes, particularly some of those which impact upon women more negatively, or in which women are more disadvantaged or vulnerable.

Yes, but public spaces are used by strangers that you don't know and cannot conduct an assessment on.

The best and most safest way of protecting female dignity and privacy is to exclude all men. Decent men understand why we do this. They know what other men are like. They also know how uncomfortable their female friends and relatives would feel being confronted wiht strange men when undressed or when in a public convenience.

Trans identifying males are just that - male. They cannot identify out of their male biology. If you think it’s ‘transphobic’ to say so, then you’re deluded. It’s unfortunate that there’s far too many violent crimes committed by males identifying as female to persuade us that these special males should be treated any differently when it comes to women’s safety than all the other males.
Oh, and while we’re at it, the overwhelming majority of terrorists of any religious persuasion are also male.

Has the OP done any of that? Called transwomen slurs or treated them as an “agressive hive mind” ? I see no evidence of that?

Making stuff up doesn’t strengthen your argument.

Million dollar question then. Are trans identifying men a higher risk than other men? There is some evidence they are especially if sex offences are your main focus but more empirical research is needed.

More contradiction from you. It's really adding up now.

You speak about posters on here as if they are an aggressive hive mind all the time. You refuse to acknowledge that posters on here are individuals.

Transparently double standards.

Define 'trans'.

There is evidence that men who are sent to prison for sex offences are disproportionately likely to identify as trans, but whether this is 'rapid onset post arrest dysphoria' to attempt to get a lighter sentence/avoid a men's prison is not clear.

We can however define men.

You’re being very misogynistic

And women are adult human females and you refuse to acknowledge that.

your move Kevin

Theres no evidence that all muslims are all terrorists theres plenty of evidence that all transwomen are men though and so should be treated the same as any other man in regards to women's safety.

I have a family member whose “gotcha” response to the trans debate is that treating trans identified men as potential threats is exactly the same as racists who say that all Muslims are terrorists.

But if you say trans men are potential threats you can also say Muslims are potential terrorists. He's changing the ?grammar - and sayingthat you are saying that all Muslims are terrorists not that all Muslims are potential terrorists

It doesn' matter if only one of the Trans people are threats or that one Muslim is a terrorists they could still rape, or set off a bomb injuring many even if it's very unlikely

What you call trans women are in fact men with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment. And like all other men have no right to be in women’s spaces, irrespective of the threat they as individuals pose to women.

And all the other men also have a number of protected characteristics that don't enable them to use women's facilities.

I don't like being 'that poster' but trans men is the term that women who say the are men use. The issue is men who say they are women.

Well, I don’t feel particularly threatened by Muslim women because they’re women.

But by men of any colour race or creed - somewhat.

And that includes men who say they aren’t men.

‘Male’ & ‘man’ are not slurs. I’d say it’s pretty misandrist to claim they are.

And every single “transwoman” is a male, a man. That’s just a fact.

Ask him why he is so desperate for wonen and girls to be exposed to penises in changing room. Ask him what he has to gain.

TPA is making as much sense as the chap who was bellowing about God through a microphone outside Primark
in town today. I'm not sure what they want us to say, but a healthy dose of reality would be a good start.

Men cannot be women and vice versa. It really is that simple.

@TransParentlyAnnoyed It isn’t transphobic to say that trans identified males are men. And I have nearly 60 years experience of my relative being a smug, know it all idiot. I certainly don’t think he is right on this.

“Calling trans women slurs, and treating them as an aggressive hive mind, is bigotry.
Trans people are individuals with a protected characteristic”
And so are men but they are treated in a certain way because statistically they (males as a whole) have been shown to more likely be the perpetrator of sexual crime against women and that’s exactly what I’’d say to PM: NO! The closet comparison is other men because they’re all male. That’s it.

I don't get what TPA gets from posting here. Let's assume we take their story as truth, they can't back down or they have to admit what they've done to their kid (see Jolyon as a prime example of this), but they seem to get some weird enjoyment out of being battered by facts and stats. Surely they'd (and I use they advisedly since they said they'd recently discovered their non binary self) be better off stepping away?

Absolutely….TPA should be more careful about slinging mud and calling other posters slurs. There are plenty of unpleasant words that could be used up describe TPAs actions.

It's a false equivalency.

1. Treating all Muslims as terrorists is based on nothing but popular imagination. All kinds of ethnicities commit terrorist acts. Treating all men as potential threats to women is based on data. Why are the vast majority of people imprisoned for violent crimes men? Why is such a high percentage of sex offenders trans relative to their numbers in the general population?

2. Treating an innocent Muslim as a terrorist creates gross violations of their civil and human rights. Treating a man as a potential threat means only that he doesn't get to go into women's spaces (a limited list of toilets, changing rooms, hospital wards and rape crisis centers) but isn't deprived of anything as he still gets his own toilets, changing rooms and hospital wards; and it means he can't play on women's sports teams due to the risk of him accidentally hurting them.