How to deal with 'mean girl' behaviour from so-called tolerant left

[BruachAbhann]

Does anyone else find it hard to deal with the mean girl type behaviour that comes from women from the so-called tolerant left? I can see why some women have been silenced by other women when it comes to transgender issues. There's a certain type of woman who wants to be seen as super tolerant but is actually only tolerant of people who share their particular views, the type who labels GC women as 'bigots' and 'transphobes'.

In my small town, about 3 years ago my husband and I went for dinner and drinks in a new neighbour's house.
She brought up the topic of transwomen and I disagreed that transwomen were literally women. She shrieked at me, called me all sorts of names and we wrapped up the evening as cordially as possible but it was so uncomfortable. Since then, she has basically blanked me or been very cold every time she sees me. I've gotten used to it. It bothers me sometimes though as my husband expressed the very same views and she's all nicey nice to him. What bothers me more is that her daughter blanks my daughter and my daughter has nothing to do with this. I told my daughter it's probably because of that conversation we had.

What is it with certain women though? They just can't see they are basically destroying women's rights by not demanding to keep single sex spaces and by actively working to include men. Not only that, but they are abusive to and intolerant of women who do not share their mindset. Using this person as an example, they think they are caring and 'on the right side of history'. They are not willing to even entertain the possibility that they could be wrong. No doubt she considers herself a feminist but she doesn't mind men in women's toilets, can't understand how it's possible to tell a man from a woman, thinks she can consent for other women to allow men into women's spaces.

Sometimes I find it hard to deal with this type of person. There are a good portion of them in my small town and I feel the chill from them. They use the typical mean girl tactics of social exclusion, gossip, character assassination. It's a hard road to walk to hold the line and know that you're doing the right thing when you're dealing with the practical fall out and it's not just some notional online battle. I know there are lots of people dealing with this and with much worse. It just makes me very sad that women are treating other women like this without any real consideration for the short or long term consequences and without extending basic human kindness to others.

Thinking about Sall Grover and how amazing she has been in taking on the entire Australian government makes me very emotional. Seeing people like that speaking out and putting their entire lives on the line is empowering and puts my battle into perspective but I suppose we are all pushing back from our corners of the world and sometimes it does take its toil emotionally and mentally. Today is one of those days!

Apparently the anniversary of Charlie Kirk’s death is a big hilarious meme amongst teens/young people. Kirkiversary or something. Whilst I don’t agree with large chunks of his positions, the casual way they treat someone killed for expressing his views, “freedom of speech”, their opinion that laughing about this is a left-wing #bekind, supercool RSOH position to be taking, it’s so callous, it’s shocking.
They had not thought about what it was about at all, it was just fitting in.

edited to add: a lot of people are going along with the trans mumbo jumbo because they haven’t thought through the implications, and they think it’s the cool right thing to think, rather than evaluating it properly.

When I read this title, I knew it'd have a GC component to it. Bingo!

In Sex and Gender discussions? Sherlock Holmes has nothing on you!

You seem to have posters on here OP that are cut from the same cloth as your neighbour, I'd ignore them as well, nothing like a lot of frothing at the month to make you count your blessings. 😁

There's a certain type of woman who wants to be seen as super tolerant but is actually only tolerant of people who share their particular views, the type who labels GC women as 'bigots' and 'transphobes'.

Yup

Sometimes I find it hard to deal with this type of person. There are a good portion of them in my small town and I feel the chill from them. They use the typical mean girl tactics of social exclusion, gossip, character assassination. It's a hard road to walk to hold the line and know that you're doing the right thing when you're dealing with the practical fall out

Same here. I am in a small village and they are hard to avoid. I understand your pain and feel for you OP

Yes, I've definitely learned that lesson to avoid politics the hard way and I never bring up that subject with people I don't really know. She actually brought it up and I am generally conflict averse. I was pretty calm actually except I was kind of shaking as she was very aggressive. I had to ask her to stop shouting and told her I was feeling attacked. I'm never going to change my mind to think that people can change sex. I've done enough thinking about it and reading about it to be secure in my opinion.
I don't mind when people disagree with me. Most of my friends disagree but we are able to have civil conversations and respect each others viewpoint.

An unexpected verbal attack can produce the same reaction as a physical attack, it sounds like your fight, flight or freeze response was activated, that's why you were shaking, and shows how aggressive she was.

Tbh the only ‘mean girl’ behaviour I’ve witnessed lately was from someone GC and on the right. The GC lefties have been a delight.

Yes, I agree that it's not left issue or right issue. I think some people who are quite left wing consider the GC issue to be right wing or dismiss it as a right wing belief. I consider myself left of centre too but my neighbour would probably call me right wing as she is so far left.
Good point about why she treats my husband differently. I think it's also attention seeking and wanting to be seen as a better woman/mother/person in some way.

🙄

From her perspective, I don't think her behaviour is particularly difficult to understand. Like many TRAs, she believes that trans people are among the most oppressed and marginalised groups in society. From that perspective, she likely sees your views as bigotry that contributes to further harm against an already vulnerable group.

Again, I don't share that view. But for many people who see themselves as fighting for social justice causes, GC views are considered deeply offensive and are perceived as forms of bigotry and oppression.

It's not strange at all, not one tiny bit.

I don’t think it’s strictly a left wing thing, it’s a ‘progressive’ thing. I’ve put it in scare quotes because I’m not entirely sure where the actual progress is supposed to be in its current form, the tolerance and inclusion it professes seems very shallow and performative while bubbling underneath is a nasty level of conformism and hypocrisy. They rejoice in any form of plurality as long as it isn’t plurality of ideas, then the knives come out. Your neighbour seems pretty typical of that type, ignore her, she’s a knob. I avoid this sort like the plague.

Sex realist 'beliefs' (a.k.a. reality) are protected in law. It is not 'transphobic', nor 'abhorrent', to express a belief in the immutability of sex. It is factual and legal.

I am able to tolerate the fact of your opposing views without condemning you as 'abhorrent'. Factually wrong, yes, but you're entitled to your belief, as are those who disagree. Similar to how I think about people with firm religious beliefs - fine, just keep them to yourself, don't expect me to go along with it.

You don’t need to change your mind but yes as a protective layer just avoid these conversations. It’s not worth it as no one gets much out of it.

@BruachAbhann I had a similar thing happen with a now former friend. Ironically, a feminist who first got me interested in feminism, and then I found Mumsnet, and then...

The former friend was utterly oblivious to the dark reality of trans ideology when I brought it up, what I'd learnt, and she condemned me as unkind and extremist. And that was the end of that.

That doesn't explain why she blanks OP and not her husband, does it?

I don't know why you think it's a left or right wing issue. It really isn't and it's not helpful to paint it as such.

As for the person blanking you now, just ignoreit
I've lost friends over the issue. We all have.
You can easy make better friends. Ones that still have one foot in reality

Well OP was the one who said it not her husband, if I understood the story correctly.

Edit: Actually the husband said it as well, so I don't know.

So you were having dinner and drinks with her for the first time and she brought up a controversial topic and then proceeded to shout at you when you didn't agree with her?

She sounds like a loon. You should feel relieved this person is not part of your life

@BruachAbhann I swear a lot of the female TRAs don't actually give a fuck about trans-identified people. They just enjoy using the issue as a way of punching down on women and sucking up to men. The very fact that she is blanking you but not your DH suggests that this is the case here. I'm sure that there are lots of good feminist reasons why we should try to understand where she is coming from, but IMO life is too short to waste on people that unpleasant. I nurture a small handful of excellent friendships and treat everyone else as an acquaintance that I would go for a coffee with, but mainly because I love coffee.

However, experience has taught me that the issue between her daughter and yours might truly have nothing to do with the adults and, in fact, there may not even be an issue; it could just be a misreading of the situation.

It’s definitely not a lefty/righty thing. I and most of my friends are blue stocking, card carrying lefties, and we all comfortably agree that trans women aren’t actually real women.

My experience is that TRAs are nearly always left-wing (usually far left/progressive) whilst GC can be anywhere along the political spectrum.

Not much to add, but I thought I'd post, as I've had a very similar experience, also in a very small rural town. Finding new friends, as some suggest, is not easy! There are also some small rural towns across the UK which attract more than their fair share of 'activist' types, so the status quo down the local pub can be far more TWAW than you might think. It can feel like social suicide to say anything different.

Despite this, I have managed to have some good conversations, but to come back to what the OP is saying, implications of my experience still come back to me. The woman who I had a similar discussion with, maybe 5 years ago, has blanked me twice in the last month, in a small town where we all know one another... So one's thoughts do come back around to what the OP is saying.

I'm not sure what the answer is to be honest. One is being confident in your own opinion. Another is to have at least a couple of friends (even if they aren't local) who agree with you and with whom you can have good conversations.
It's hard though, when it feels like everyone wouldn't agree with you.

If it helps, the other people who were at this gathering where I had my experience are 'her' friends, yet none of them blank me, and have carried on being friendly to me (though I know they agree with her and they heard my very polite disagreement with her on that evening!)

Many people grow out of that kind of high school behaviour. It's a very understandable description of that kind of person though.