How to deal with 'mean girl' behaviour from so-called tolerant left

[BruachAbhann]

Does anyone else find it hard to deal with the mean girl type behaviour that comes from women from the so-called tolerant left? I can see why some women have been silenced by other women when it comes to transgender issues. There's a certain type of woman who wants to be seen as super tolerant but is actually only tolerant of people who share their particular views, the type who labels GC women as 'bigots' and 'transphobes'.

In my small town, about 3 years ago my husband and I went for dinner and drinks in a new neighbour's house.
She brought up the topic of transwomen and I disagreed that transwomen were literally women. She shrieked at me, called me all sorts of names and we wrapped up the evening as cordially as possible but it was so uncomfortable. Since then, she has basically blanked me or been very cold every time she sees me. I've gotten used to it. It bothers me sometimes though as my husband expressed the very same views and she's all nicey nice to him. What bothers me more is that her daughter blanks my daughter and my daughter has nothing to do with this. I told my daughter it's probably because of that conversation we had.

What is it with certain women though? They just can't see they are basically destroying women's rights by not demanding to keep single sex spaces and by actively working to include men. Not only that, but they are abusive to and intolerant of women who do not share their mindset. Using this person as an example, they think they are caring and 'on the right side of history'. They are not willing to even entertain the possibility that they could be wrong. No doubt she considers herself a feminist but she doesn't mind men in women's toilets, can't understand how it's possible to tell a man from a woman, thinks she can consent for other women to allow men into women's spaces.

Sometimes I find it hard to deal with this type of person. There are a good portion of them in my small town and I feel the chill from them. They use the typical mean girl tactics of social exclusion, gossip, character assassination. It's a hard road to walk to hold the line and know that you're doing the right thing when you're dealing with the practical fall out and it's not just some notional online battle. I know there are lots of people dealing with this and with much worse. It just makes me very sad that women are treating other women like this without any real consideration for the short or long term consequences and without extending basic human kindness to others.

Thinking about Sall Grover and how amazing she has been in taking on the entire Australian government makes me very emotional. Seeing people like that speaking out and putting their entire lives on the line is empowering and puts my battle into perspective but I suppose we are all pushing back from our corners of the world and sometimes it does take its toil emotionally and mentally. Today is one of those days!

There are rude people and weirdos and mean girls across the political spectrum. Sounds like you had an argument with someone and didn't speak to them again. There's nothing to really deal with is there, just blank her back.

I rather think that's a very strange thread to pull on here tbh.

Why? I thought most people would have similar experiences.

I'd say that in a section of a discussion forum called Sex and gender discussions starting a thread about the response from some when those discussions happen in real life would seem to be fine.

Sounds like you have a neighbour from hell, you do get them all over I'm afraid. I think you should count yourself lucky she revealed her obnoxious side early on, it a shame about the fall out effecting your daughter, but she's probably better off not having the neighbours daughter as a friend any way.
I'd have words with the husband though, ask him if he could be more supportive of his wife and daughter and not be smiley, smiley with this woman.

I do generally prefer to avoid blaming women for most of the impossible situations that women find themselves in because of the way men have set up, maintained, and driven society. So I don't agree with your terminology ("mean girl" etc. ) - however, I think I understand what you are trying to say.

I do think that, because it's nearly always women who suffer the consequences of going against the tide in a patriarchal society (and women have been doxxed, hounded, assaulted, lost their jobs, lost their businesses, etc. due to pushing back against this idea that men can have and be whatever they want, whenever they want to), women are, generally, worried and afraid. As we need to be. Often. And this manifests itself in various ways, including "pick me" or "do it to Julia" attitudes, and the usual fawning or flight responses. Men don't normally have to deal with this, but most girls learn these responses early in life.

It may be that your neighbor, like many women, is so comfortable and secure in her little bubble of a life that anyone who threatens that would rue the day. She simply cannot afford to let anything disrupt her perfect circle of existence. And letting herself open to abuse by daring to agree that men can never be women, is not something she is willing to hear. Because it puts her own life at risk in some way.

Or she's just deluded. Or her entire circle of friends is exactly the same. Or she's in deep denial. Or she isn't really that bothered, as long as she thinks she's on TRSOH.

Having said all that, I would be a bit worried about myself if something that happened three years ago was still bothering me now. I suggest you let it go. Live your life and stop worrying about what she thinks about you. Just be glad she's not family (been there, done that!)

When you don't have a good argument, you have to rely on tactics such as shaming and shunning. We had a self-declared left-wing poster on here once talk about using shame to make people go along with their ideas, and that this was a long-standing left-wing tactic. It certainly opened my eyes to being more aware of its use.

There are lots of insufferable and small minded people across the political spectrum. I don't think all those on the left are tolerant anymore than I think those on the right are all racist.

Saying that though, I imagine you also got a bit more shrieky and less polite than you are admitting, you say 'they just can't see they are basically destroying women's rights' and 'they are not willing to even entertain the possibility that they could be wrong' but I don't think you are showing any open mindedness to consider you could ever be wrong either? Neither of you were in that conversation willing to change or move your views, it was only ever going to go one way (badly).

I'm sure there is some age old advice about avoiding politics, religion and sex in polite conversation. If other people bring up sensitive topics learn to sidestep and deflect them with a smile to keep the peace.

This.

I think your neighbour probably IS just a 'mean girl'. If it wasn't that topic, she'd find something else to be an arse about. It's more about her trying to show how superior she is (in her eyes) than doing what's actually the right thing.

There's a lot of women who seem happy to chuck all the other women they know under the bus if they thought it would make them seem more favourable in front of men. Her being OK with your husband may also that - she cares a lot more about how he views her than how you do.

When this is all over, I will NEVER forgive the handmaidens for trying to give our rights away.

Left or right you will have people who disagree with you and have strong opinions and views. She feels your views are oppressive, discriminatory and she doesn't want anything to do with you and it sounds like you feel something similar towards her. Unnecessary and unfair for her to include her child and your child in this. The irony is, you both sound quite similar in your convictions of your opposing views and your judgements of eachother.

It absolutely does fit on here.

What better forum to discuss the extreme reaction to someone voicing their belief in women's sex based rights.

Apart from which, if you aren't interested in this thread, why bother to come and attempt to tell the OP off?

Just ignore the thread.

This is a feminist forum where women expect some sort of empathy and understanding.

Find a thread you are interested in.

Hi OP

Have nothing really useful to say. I am not surprised that a self important leftie would behave as she has done.

But am shocked that she seems to have spread her poison to her daughter, and so to yours.

I think often this is because some feel it is important to demonstrate to those they want to ingratiate themselves with that she is a true believer, in this instance, the TWAW bloc.

Unfortunately it’s an illness nothing you can do or say will change her. Block and move on .
It really isn’t worth your headspace and it is certainly not unique to this issue. At least she is not your sister or sister in law . If you want a little sugar with the shit x

Thanks. It doesn't generally bother me at all but I was a bit surprised today because my daughter said her daughter kept blanking her in school and she didn't know why. 3 years is a long time for her to hold a grudge. I also wouldn't condone if my daughter was treating hers that way and it was a bit upsetting to see her being affected by a conversation we had 3 years ago. I think it's a very childish way to go on and I think this type of behaviour is mean. I'm not saying women are generally mean or anything, I probably didn't express that very well.
Thanks for reading my email in the spirit it was intended. I appreciate the response. I actually feel better now. Just needed to get it off my chest.

'Mean girl' is misogynist. Are only young women mean?

The effect on your daughter is the most unfair and chilling aspect. I've disagreed with people and our kids have remained friends - as it should be.

She may be all sweetie pie with your husband but I would be very careful around her if I was him. Such fanatics can be dangerous and she might be doing a bit of fishing for information.

Yes, even when the view is more that the person doesn’t agree with either side.

I don’t actually think it’s a “left” issue, and labelling it so ascribes a complete set of values ie you can’t be gender critical unless you’re on the “right”.

you can’t be GC and also believe in socialism, universal healthcare and a welfare safety net.
i am GC and would consider myself left of centre. I am certainly not on the right.

with women like this I think it is less about “the tolerant left” and more about female conditioning and socialisation to “be kind”, to step aside for others, and put their own needs last.

which is why she’s lovely to your husband, him being a male. She’s been conditioned to “look after” the men. She’s can stand up to you because you’re a woman and are disruption the status quo where women shut up and allow others to take the lead.

Apologies. It's always a distracting day for me on 9/11...I thought this had all happened three years ago, but if your neighbor's daughter is taking something out on your daughter now, then obviously it could be anything that kids go through, or, yes, your neighbor could just be a nasty person who holds grudges and has been busy creating grudges in her daughter as well! So, as someone else said, just give her a wide berth and hopefully your daughter will make other friends who are worth having!

The other stuff about women and TRSOH still holds, though, I think. She may just be a "righteous" sort of person.

It's really simple.

All transphobia enables violence, and people don't like being ambushed with another person's abhorrent beliefs.

She reacted to you exactly as anyone would to a racist, misogynist or homophobe.

It's not 'mean girl' behaviour to stand up to bigotry. It's a civic duty.

It isn't at all.
We as a family go to a festival sometimes that bills itself as for thinking and politics as well as music.
The Proclaimers have played several times and have just come out as gender critical.
I don't think people who are convinced men can turn into women are harming me. I'm not sure they should be telling children this but if it's presented as one point of view and not claimed to be science then, a bit like creationism, I'm not going to go out there Father Ted style complaining "down with this sort of thing".
However apparently their (the Proclaimers) and my view that men can't be women is so harmful they (and I) shouldn't go to the festival again.
I'm now determined to go again and put HATEFUL stickers all over the place.