I hope you will be proud of me..

[namechange62]

I'm not very educated, married to a good man, live a quiet life in a small village in the south west, have good relationships with males in my family who are good men. (Grand/Father, uncles, sons, son in law) and have strong women in my life (mother, daughter daughter's in law, nieces etc).
Just setting the scene really..

Well it all kicked off this afternoon at my house. (When I say kicked off I mean a quick argument lasting about half an hour! Not EastEnders worthy..)

I have to say I had a few. Not many because I don't really drink but ..

Somehow it was bought up about Gen Z being offended about something that my kids/and partners grew up with (ages 29-36…). A sketch in Little Britain. Somehow the conversation turned to trans stuff and eventually turned to transwomen.

Anyway I bought up the case of transwomen playing in the (WNBA? ) basketball and how some men are pretending to be women to join. Showing solidarity with the woman having to play with 6ft 10in transwomen? I've probably got details wrong but hopefully you can understand?

Well it got heated.
SIL Sort of agreed but said it's rare. I said even one transwomen taking a female space is one too many. I talked about transwomen in female toilets. How do we know who the 'safe' ones are. It got on to male violence v female violence.

My Dil who works with victims of DV agreed and was quoting statistics about calls to DV helplines rising during the world cup.

My son got very heated and did the usual whataboutery. But what about women who do the same?! Trans men in male sports? Transmen who use mens toilets/changing rooms.

I said it's very rare but he continued to get riled when I started spouting some stuff I'd read on MN.
Mediocre men who fail in mens teams taking places from women, men invading women's spaces for fetish reasons. I said do you ever enter the toilets thinking whether you are safe? (Surprise that he didn't even know what I meant? And surprised when I told him I did!). His GF then agreed with me. I said you have no skin in this game (males taking female places in sport, jobs and prizes) and never will!
He got heated and continued with the whataboutery but I held my ground.

Told him about the transwomen who invade female changing rooms (I encountered one myself) and how would he feel if his grandma had to deal with a semi naked man who was getting kicks by humiliatingly women.

SiL got it and eventually DS got it too. These are normal hardworking men.
Anyway we left it at that but both of them said they didn't know half of what I'd said.

I read a lot on this thread on MN and want to say thank you for educating me. I can't help many people to understand but I think I got 2 men today to think a bit more about it.

Brilliant work, @namechange62.

Hope you replied to your son that trans men in men’s toilets are very unlikely to be a risk to other men! It doesn’t work the opposite way round!

Thank you.

Well done OP. It can be scary talking about this to those who've bought all the fake facts and untruths. But it really matters that science, facts and everyone's rights matter so every time we challenge the lies that are told it speads a little more sunlight.

Oh yes! See male violence v female violence..
DD who's been listening to me since I found MN just watched her partner and brother get educated!

@namechange62 Amazing!! You stood your ground and educated them.

Well done you

Brilliant work! I find it so so hard to bring this stuff up, so am very impressed!!

Well done for taking the opportunity and not shying away from it. It's so wrong that we have to be brave to do this but you were brave - thank you.

Well done OP 🥂

Well done and thank you OP! Now that they’ve been tipped off they’ll start seeing it for themselves.

👏👏👏👏

Well done!

Great stuff, well done.👏

Well done!

I was asked to attend a meeting, covering for a senior colleague, to discuss the implementation of the EHRC guidelines in our hospital.

I was guarded but got a good few points in. I probably won’t be asked back but am now on the distribution list so hope I’ll be able to carry on going.

Brilliant work name and well done for having the courage to stand your ground

Thank you op. You did a great job. 💐

Well done, OP. I think some men think that we are attacking all men when we discuss this topic, and they get defensive. If you stand your ground and explain the situation from a woman's pov they often come round, as you have demonstrated admirably!

Well done!

Brilliant job OP! I've been in this situation a few times and it's hard to deal with the shouty onslaught and name calling that can ensue, even if you say things in the most reasonable terms and can readily recall all the arguments when attacked from all angles. Fantastic that you were able to make them see the issue clearly. Also, kudos to your relatives for being able to eventually see the issue as many people doubledown.
I've taken Helen Joyce's advise to ask questions rather than make statements for future discussions.

I think this is it! My DS is a lovely kind gentle man and probably can't imagine that some men have an ulterior motive. He really did start to understand what I was trying to say when I explained that I am wary just going to the toilet! And although his wonderful grandma has now died she was in a care home with Alzheimer's. I very gently tried to tell him about transwomen being allowed to give intimate care to vulnerable females. And how it's gone wrong and how do we know which one is dangerous and who is safe.

Well done OP, that's great!

I have thoroughly avoided the subject with my DD since a horrible row a few years ago where I got called a bigot, etc for expressing some, in retrospect, very mild thoughts. But the other day she brought the subject up (opening by saying "I'd probably get cancelled for this but...") and we had a really good chat, with me mostly listening/asking questions rather than expressing any views. We don't agree on everything , but her view is so much more nuanced than it used to be. She thinks the T should be separated from the LGB, that male bodied people should not be in women's sports but should compete in their own sex class, and that nobody under 18 should be given medical treatment to "change gender". She has trans friends so sees it from various sides. I was impressed, and relieved, by how her thinking has developed. I can't even begin to express how much of a change this is from her previous dogmatic opinions!

Wow! I could have written this about my God daughter. She had a trans friend who had top surgery. Roll on 5 yrs and they are now detransitioning and getting implants and my God daughter has started to see what we (her mum too) were warning against

How frustrating though that your DS was arguing that a woman in men's sport or a woman in a men's toilet is no different from the other way round. It doesn't take much understanding of the world to realise that that's a ridiculous point of view.

That's awful. A friend of mine told me a family member of hers had detransitioned too and that she'd had multiple cardiac arrests (she's only in her early 20s) from the medication she was on, presumably testosterone.