Trans women are women. They live, work, are sexually harassed and experience vulnerability to cis male violence exactly as did women do.
No - the only people who are women are those born female - you can not change sex. the very fact that you call someone 'Trans woman' is an admittance that they are not a 'woman'. It is an attempt to pretend that they are the same as women because you know that no-one will agree that they are women. But they are not - they are men.
there is no such thing as 'cis' men or women - there are just men - born male and always male; or women - born female and always female - there is no division, each sex is its own sex with no sub-sections or clarifications needed.
Men who pretend to be women ('trans women') are not subject to sexual harassment / violence at the same level as women - if they are show the stats. The stats clearly show that 'Trans women' are perpetrators of sexual and other violence at the same levels as across all men.
Trans women using public toilets - completely open spaces containing cubicles, which anyone can walk into - does not endanger us. Predatory cis men do.
endanger - who, who do you define as 'us' you are not a woman (from previous threads), so it is confusing that you refer to 'us'. 'Trans women' are men and some of them are predatory. No men are wanted in women's spaces.
Encouraging hate against a minority, and denying who they are, has never made us safe.
No-one is encouraging hate - it is possible to even feel sorry and compassion for someone while refusing to play their game of make-believe that they are a different sex. Standing up and stating the truth that sex is immutable and that all 'trans-women' are men is merely stating the facts to avoid confusion - it shows no sign of hate.
There is no denying who they are - in fact the very opposite - a man pretending to be a woman ('trans women') is in fact denying who they are - those of us who stand for the truth are strongly against denying the truth - we want the truth to be transparent and obvious to all - once a man, always a man.
Safety of men is really not the issue or concern - it is safety of women that is at threat from men - specifically in this discussion, from 'trans-women' who are men denying who they are.
Gay men.
A really irrelevant side-track. It is obvious to anyone who understand biology that men or women can be gay - they can fancy someone of their own sex. It is also equally obvious that a man can't become a woman and a woman can't become a man - so someone claiming to be 'trans' has all sorts of issues going on - none of which are comparable to the gay community.
Transphobia is the recycled, vile homophobia which destroyed so many young gay lives. And a fair amount is recycled racism as well - notably the bits about inherently aggression.
As above - nonsense, there is no transphobia shown here - to be be transphobic would first require someone capable of being 'trans' which we know is not physically possible. Secondly it would require a set of people to fear the 'trans' community for irrational reasons - and that is not this community - here you get people who stand up for truth, but are also very compassionate towards those struggling from mental health issues, and resistant to the obvious bullies and arrogant demands of a small subset of those who call themselves 'trans'
Telling women that they'll be safe going into public toilets once trans women are banned, because cis men observe a fictional social contract not to enter, is both insulting and dangerous.
I think that most women are aware that there will always be predatory men - a number of them have found the excuse of pretending to be women, so the clarity about only women in women's spaces will help reduce their presence
Having absolute clarity - zero tolerance, no men in a woman's space makes it a lot easier to challenge and remove people - there is no ability for a predatory man to weasel out by claiming to be a woman.
Most cis men don't go into the Ladies because there are no urinals, the queues are longer and they don't want to. Not because they are noble.
Still no such thing as cis.
Your arguments are ridiculous - I have never chosen to not go into a ladies loo because of a lack of urinals or because of queues, I don't go in because I am a man and I respect women and am happy for them to have their own space. Any man demanding access to women's space is clearly so insecure in who they are that they can't possibly allow women their own space, they have to invade it and control it...
But the predatory cis men who have always gone in, can now claim to be trans guys if challenged.
Still no such thing as cis.
not sure how that would work - men are men and are clearly men even with a frock and string of pearls - they are different shapes, have different hips, walk differently, talk differently and those who fall into the 'trans woman' / man pretending to be a woman group seem to spend their time trying to get affirmation that they are real women by acting in ways that no women would...
Quite how you think that a man pretending to be a woman pretending to be a man is going to work I have no idea - sounds as though it is a thought from fantasy land somewhere!
They not only went in when they wanted (to hide in cubicles and wait for a woman to be alone) before, they now have an excuse if caught.
Men might have gone in previously - now there is no excuse for a man to be in a woman's space, so there is zero excuse - quite how you believe that to mean there is an excuse is bizarre!
Men attack us in public and nothing is done. They attack us on buses, in the street, in our homes, at work, in pubs - often in front of witnesses. The idea they'd go to all the effort of transitioning so as to use public toilets is laughable, and a male idea of what sexual violence actual is.
Who is this us again? Are you a man pretending to be a woman so as to associate with women? I don't think that women accept me in their use of 'us'
You are right though, women are attacked in many ways by men - allowing men to pretend to be women to gain even more access to women in places where they should expect privacy is clearly not acceptable - as well as being illegal.
And yes, there are many men online who claim to be women who spout hatred and violence against women as a part of their daily deluded rhetoric.
Most men have no real clue what it's like to live with the constant threat of sexual violence. Trans women do - because they're targeted by them as well.
I think the first part of this is accurate - men generally do not have that level of awareness. However I would take issue with the second part - I and others on here keep asking for evidence that men in the 'trans women' community are targetted by other men in terms of sexual violence - and there is no evidence forthcoming - the stats that are available do not suggest this to be true, in fact those stats confirm that men within the 'trans women' community initiate sexual violence against women at the same rate as other men. There logically follows an assumption that this claim is another unsubstantiated claim aimed at getting validation for men who wish to be seen as women...
Men like to imagine that women have sanctuaries and safe spaces (granted by them, because they're so noble) because they don't want to hear the brutal reality of how women live. We will see absolutely no progress until that is addressed.
really no idea where you are going with this - men don't grant things to women - they don't own women - it may have escaped your notice that the tories are on their fourth female leader, three of whom have been prime minister - and this whole discussion is about men using deception (pretending to be women) to gain access to women's spaces - if men granted them those spaces they wouldn't need to pretend to be women to gain access... Women are as equal as men and are as legally entitled to their own space as men - it does not need the permission of a man to allow it!
it is a shame to see so much inaccurate stuff written - let's reset to the truth - men are men and women are women. Both are allowed their own spaces where relevant - and the opposite sex has no access - end of discussion.