How do we deal with this? Transmen have police called on them

[SadiraOfTyr]

I honestly don’t know how this can be addressed. A group of male-identifying women used the women’s toilets, as they are required to where they live, and got the police called on them.

Obviously they did it as a stunt, but what really might the solution be? They are committing a criminal offence using the men’s.

www.erininthemorning.com/p/police-called-on-trans-men-using

just let them use the mens. clearly no one wants them in the womens as theyre men. and men use mens toilets

I wonder who calmed the police on them? 🤔

I think men’s toilets should be unisex and women’s toilets designated as single sex.

I never really understood why it was the women who had to accept the men in their spaces.

Agreed (apart from the fact that they’re not men) but that would require the law to be changed where they are in the US. It seems it’s actually a criminal offence to use the wrong single-sex space there.

sometimes the laws are nonsensical in a way that makes it quite apparent that it would be appropriate to break them

That’s what we’ve done in lots of sports (including my own). The old men’s category is now called the open category and the women’s category is for actual biological women only.

Having looked briefly at the picture at the top of the article linked, I don't believe for one minute that an actual woman would have mistaken those people for men in real life. A man possibly may have done, because a lot of men are not very observant. I strongly suspect they called the police themselves, the daft beggars.

Well it's in the US, so not really our problem, and they were there to cause a fuss and someone called the coppers on them. They got what they wanted.

"The manager of the municipally run property allegedly screamed and rushed children out the door."

It's also an article in a 'trans' friendly online publication so I'd take the details with a large pinch of salt.

It's the sort of thing that'll get our unhinged whipped up though, they'll use this as some sort of whataboutery gotcha.

Let them use the unisex facilities.
Tbh this all the fault of trans activists as we originally offered to help campaign for fourth spaces but no it had to be womens they used and called us terfs.
The fact that this is all coming home to rooste and like normal its the women who are getting the worst of it.

I wouldn’t be so sure. I can’t even recognise my own friends and family if I haven’t got my glasses on. A big blurry blob with a beard is a man as far as I’m concerned.

This is interesting. It my research, they often don’t want to use the men’s, preferring mixed sex. Reasons given: they smell, can’t use the urinals so outing, left in a disgusting state, feel unsafe.

Remember though this refers to American restrooms. It is very different as we have different designs. We have the accessible toilet in many places that is unisex.

One of the reasons given for toilets in America having such massive floor to door gaps is that a person in a wheelchair can use a standard stall. Their feet fit under the door and partitions when they swing round. I have never had this confirmed but it would suggest why these places don’t have a unisex alternative.

"just let them use the mens. clearly no one wants them in the womens as theyre men. and men use mens toilets"

Well no. If you are gender critical they they are women as they have xx chromosomes so ( although this is in the us) according to the latest UK guidance should be using women's toilets.

They should be using unisex facilities if they pass so well that they fear they might cause trauma to vulnerable women. If Kansas doesn't provide them, they should be campaigning for them. They could cite the UK as an example of a country that has brought out detailed guidance that respects everyone, whether trans-identified or not. Simples.

They probably had the police called on them for being hostile and deliberately anti social, although if anyone actually reads the article they did not get the response they wanted in all situation. Not sure why FWR would want to boost the publicity this unrepresentative group wants!

Although according to AI the option of buildings having single sex toilets and "gender neutral" ones doesn't seem that common.

Note in this AI summary there is no national policy. It is by state.

There is no single federal law in the United States that explicitly mandates or forbids single-sex public toilets. Instead, traditional sex-segregation in public and commercial buildings is governed by a patchwork of state plumbing codes, local municipal ordinances, and historical building standards (such as the Uniform Building Code). 1, 2, 3, 4]

State and Local Rules

• Building and Plumbing Codes: Most U.S. states and cities enforce building codes that require commercial establishments, restaurants, and public spaces to provide a minimum number of separate water closets for men and women based on maximum occupancy. 1]
• Gender-Neutral/All-Gender Laws: A growing number of municipalities and states (including places like California, New York, and Washington D.C.) have passed laws or ordinances requiring single-occupancy (single-stall) public restrooms to be designated as gender-neutral or all-gender to increase accessibility. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Transgender Restroom Access and "Bathroom Bills"

• State Restrictions: Over 20 states have enacted laws or formal policies restricting transgender individuals from using public, government-owned, or school restrooms that align with their gender identity rather than their sex assigned at birth. 1, 2]
• Legal Challenges: There is no uniform federal consensus. Federal courts and the U.S. Department of Justice remain split on whether anti-discrimination statutes like Title IX or the Equal Protection Clause of the U.S. Constitution protect a student or citizen's right to use public facilities matching their gender identity, leading to ongoing, state-by-state litigation. 1, 2, 3]

Well this is a problem they are going to have to solve themselves. Obviously the aim is to get males back into the ladies loos.

A third of ppl think a trans women is a women who identifies as a man so am giving that poster benefit of doubt

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/06/third-of-britons-dont-know-trans-women-born-male/

tho this does ferl very much like the regular trans man attempted gotcha that gets posted on what feels like a daily basis

I honestly don’t know how this can be addressed.

I don't think you're expected to know. They're in the US, so it will be dealt with according to state law, as there's currently no blanket federal law that applies, AFAIK.

We have different laws here and different arrangements will be made, which both the SC ruling and the EHRC guidance have made reference to.

Exactly. Even though this happened in a different country.

We have enough to deal with here, without worrying about how other countries are dealing, or not dealing, with this.

Difficult for them, I suppose. They'll have to work something out. It's a border-line gotcha story.

The manager of the municipally run property allegedly screamed and rushed children out the door.

Oh aye right. And who alleged this?

They are women, but the EHRC guidance absolutely does not say they should use the women’s if their presence there might cause other women alarm or distress.

“Passing” women who identify as men should be provided with unisex facilities, which they should use (or I’m sure they would be able to use the men’s without incident).

They. are. in. the. US. Kansas. Not our problem.

Some when did transmen have the "privilege of blending in"? They don't blend in, I just don't say "oooo, a transman!" when I see one at the gym or in town.

Honestly I don’t actually care

women who have masculinised their appearance to the extent that they pass as men and therefore can’t use either facility have a problem entirely of their own making. I am confident that there are single occupancy accessible cubicles they can use if they weren’t looking to throw other women’s safety and privacy away for the sake of propping up their own delusion and giving trans identified men unlimited access to women’s spaces services and sports

they have given not a single fuck about other women, not a single fuck about the children they are gaslighting into calling them “dad” and so I give not a single fuck about their entirely self induced “problem”.

They're lucky the screaming manager didn't come back with a gun, Kansas has no laws about guns, so long as you're over 21 you can buy any type of gun you want, they're all allowed.

This. I have a (distant - haven’t seen them for years) family member who is a teenage trans male. (XX chromosomes for clarity.) On FB photos of them alone - particularly of their face - they do look like a slightly effeminate looking young man. They have short hair, they wear no make up, they wear clothing that is from the men / boys sections of shops.

And then you see a photo of them in a group of people and notice that they are about 5 foot 2 and their waist is smaller than their hips and your brain goes “oh - silly me - female”.