How do we deal with this? Transmen have police called on them

[SadiraOfTyr]

I honestly don’t know how this can be addressed. A group of male-identifying women used the women’s toilets, as they are required to where they live, and got the police called on them.

Obviously they did it as a stunt, but what really might the solution be? They are committing a criminal offence using the men’s.

www.erininthemorning.com/p/police-called-on-trans-men-using

I agree with this.

These are adult women who have chosen to modify their bodies to look like men, and now they are upset that there are problems for them when they go out and interact with other people.

Perhaps it would have made sense to think about how their body modifications were going to affect their interaction with society before they did it.

The phrase "You've made your bed, now lie in it" springs to mind.

Hard to believe anything published by Erin in the Morning, a man famous for secretly wearing his wife’s clothes behind her back and who regularly publishes lies on his website about pretty much everything.

Well, if three people came into my establishment together, clearly hell-bent on making a point and with their umbrage at the ready, in a state where anyone can buy a gun, I think I might have been tempted to call the cops too.

Ahh, didn't know who this bloke was.

I suppose we're supposed to read that and go 'Oh.... poor trans men, what can we do, I know, I'll just forget about reality and cave in to this whole trans malarkey and go along with it now, it's all just too complicated for my little brain'.

As if!

This isn't our problem to solve. It wouldn't be our problem to solve if it were happening here, but as it's happening in the US, with their own different laws, it's a matter for them to sort out.

The SC judgement allows trans identifying women (transmen) to be banned from female facilities on a case by case basis since eg a well-passing one in a rape crisis centre could reasonably upset the women there.

I think some TM pass well at a glance because beard and male patterned baldness is very much male, but then you look at their face, walk, little hands and nope.

Tbh it would have made me question it. What kind of woman stands in a group at the entrance to a woman’s toilet with a t shirt saying ‘compliance crew’ (ie. That is suggestive of we want to check your genitals’.

No fucking way would I be entering that bathroom.

Not really sure what the issue is with OP saying how do we handle this. They clearly wanted to cause an issue. And the answer is an easy one - if your presence in a sexed toilet matching your sex is an issue - then use an accessible loo (traditionally called the disabled).

The article is about trans-identifying women in the USA.
Not within the purview of UK law.

Not really sure what the issue is with OP saying how do we handle this.

The issue is that there IS no way for us to handle this, because it all took place in Kansas.

This is an issue for the good people of Kansas to sort out. These three were going out of their way to be as conspicuous as possible and clearly wanting to cause a scene. If any one of them individually used the toilet and left without hanging around the entrance I doubt there would have been an issue. Attention seeking at its worst. And highly possible it was one them that made the phone call to the police

I have a feeling we're not in Kansas -

though for a fleeting moment I thought it was Jolyon on the right.

Ah, thanks for the sunlight.
A few things are starting to add up now.

If people stopped shouting that they are trans half of them could get away with walking into the bathroom they’re not supposed to go in. If a trans man has a beard and walked into a men’s bathroom no one would even bat an eyelid, it’s the fact they make a song and dance about it that draws everyone’s attention to them

Maybe recognise trans men's intense vulnerability?

Stop campaigning against tampon machines/bins in the Gents?

Understand how many gnc cis women are affected as well?

Finally grasp that vigilantism and policing appearance only harms women?

Find a new hobby?

Agreed!

It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that they called the cops on themselves.

Finally grasp that vigilantism and policing appearance only harms women?

Wasn't it trans men who were being harmed in the OP story? But if vigilantism and policing appearance only harms women, does that mean trans men are women? It would then logically follow that trans women are men.

Worth pointing out that this wouldn’t be a criminal offence in the U.K. or even a civil one. The legal responsibility is on the provider not the user.

No trans identifying females need to stay out of the mens and use the unisex facilities if they've chosen to take so much testosterone and/or had surgery that makes them appear male.

There's no vigilantes on our side just women who dont want men in our spaces.

Oh and this is only happening because of the aggressive and inappropriate behaviour of men who insisted on invading womens spaces.
We offered to help you campaign for fourth spaces and you called us terfs and transphobic and sent us death and rape threats all whilst you were claiming victim hood and misrepresenting the law to everyone.
So in the years we could have campaigned together to make sure that there was suitable facilities for everyone you turned your best allies into your worst enemies because its always been women who organise, fundraise and do all the hard slog of campaigning and now all that fundraising, organisation, campaigning and legal action is against your lot and for women, our words and rights.
The fact that we are now winning and your lot are being forced back into your metaphorical box is all the fault of activists and activist groups on your side so its time that you guys own it and accept that the days of trans demands trumping everyone and everything else are over.
Stay out of women's facilities

It could be trespass in England and Wales if they were asked to leave and refused or breach of the peace in Scotland but again it would be because of their behaviour not their sex or being trans.
Any trans identifying males who enters female single sex spaces are massively opening themselves up to arrest for voyeurism just by being there and potentially to sexual harassment and indecent exposure too so whilst there is no specific criminal laws that can stop men from using womens facilities there are plenty that can be used to punish those who do

I disagree; just because a woman in the gents' is unlikely to represent a threat to the men in there, I believe that both sexes should be allowed to have same-sex privacy and dignity (except for little kids going in with their opposite-sex parent, obviously).

It's nothing like a sporting competition which takes place in public, whereby I think that having female and open categories does make sense.

I doubt it. In the vast majority of cases, they just look like a woman with a beard and a crew cut. It's obvious, because they often have the height and body size of a young teenage boy, but a more established beard than a lad of that age would have (or event want) yet.

This is another case of people's politeness in not mentioning the obvious being misconstrued as people not actually realising the trans person's actual biological sex.

At the library, at least one patron complained; at other places, the men used the bathroom and received dirty looks, and simply left the space without confrontation.

Bingo. When they don't go out of their way to create troubles, trans people are left alone. Brilliant demonstration of that.

Who is actually campaigning against tampon machines and bins in the gents'? It's just that they're clearly wholly unnecessary, as men don't menstruate - ever - and little girls in with their dads will be far too young to have started needing period products yet.

If you're in the men's toilets and you need period products or facilities, it isn't the men's toilets that have got it wrong; it's you.

It isn't the tampon mchines in the gents that are the threat to vulnerable females who enter them, it is the men in there. As you know.