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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Are we a cult?

807 replies

CyclingSam · 11/08/2026 11:01

I keep reading that sex realists, of which I am one, are a cult. Perhaps a genderist could be so kind as to explain what a cult is, and why we qualify. Sometimes one of us calls them a cult too. Who has a better case, hmmm?

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18
ElenOfTheWays · Yesterday 14:46

Waitwhat23 · 11/08/2026 21:12

Might as well face it, you're addicted to hate.

Ooh, there's a parody song in there.... (wanders off to google the lyrics)

"Your mind is not your own"

music video vintage GIF
SodThisHeadache · Yesterday 14:48

Newgolddream123 · Yesterday 13:20

@SodThisHeadache indeed,clarity and communication is key. Hospice UK had guidance/ info documents with a case study of a TW admitted to hospice …she was called “Dad” by her adult daughter but they complained about issues with misgendering by staff, (which is fully valid imo but explains why some staff may have been confused) . But they also complained about their medical treatment as the person was being given a “second best” medication with greater side effects that is given to women rather than the “ first choice” medication with fewer side effects that can only be used by men. So there is that anachronism of staff needing to treat them as a woman but also to treat them as a man. Caring for human beings is incredibly important ( I believe we all have a soul but I doubt it’s a gendered one) and hospices aim to treat everybody with care and dignity but sex is important and I get fed up with accusations of transphobia for knowing this very basic fact of life.

The anecdote about the medication... I wish I could say that is unbelievable. So the senior medics decided to give him a 'female' medication in line with his gender 'identity' not his sex, to his detriment?

Like the case of the female placed in a male psychiatric unit, only to be raped in a cupboard within hours, because she 'identified' as male:

https://x.com/ProfAliceS/status/2057004208499339659

People have lost their minds. That's a cult. And it's a really really scary one, because it involves all our institutions.

ElenOfTheWays · Yesterday 14:49

BunfightBetty · 11/08/2026 23:08

Sorry, that was very mean of me.

I mean, I'm like totally triggered now

slug · Yesterday 14:50

I give you Mallow Puffs. A Kiwi institution, also availabe in bite size parcels. Superior to Tunnocks in every way.

slug · Yesterday 14:52

A picture would help....

Are we a cult?
Are we a cult?
BackToLurk · Yesterday 14:55

slug · Yesterday 14:50

I give you Mallow Puffs. A Kiwi institution, also availabe in bite size parcels. Superior to Tunnocks in every way.

Mallow Puffs sounds like a 1930s theatrical impresario.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · Yesterday 14:59

slug · Yesterday 14:50

I give you Mallow Puffs. A Kiwi institution, also availabe in bite size parcels. Superior to Tunnocks in every way.

Ahhh, NO.

Lins77 · Yesterday 15:01

I wouldn't eat anything Tunnock's related if you paid me.

Well, to be fair, I probably would if you paid me. Or threatened me at knifepoint, for instance. But not otherwise.

Can we Tunnock-haters form a breakaway cult, perhaps?

Boiledbeetle · Yesterday 15:03

Lins77 · Yesterday 15:01

I wouldn't eat anything Tunnock's related if you paid me.

Well, to be fair, I probably would if you paid me. Or threatened me at knifepoint, for instance. But not otherwise.

Can we Tunnock-haters form a breakaway cult, perhaps?

Breakaways were quite nice. Can you still get them them?

borntobequiet · Yesterday 15:03

thegoodnews · Yesterday 09:54

The judge suggested that there was a case to made that men may not be discriminated against if trans women only are included in women's toilets because they aren't disadvantaged so I wouldn't be so sure that single sex with exceptions as already exists for male children can't be considered.

It’s not entirely clear what you’re saying here, but if it’s that allowing young boys into women’s toilets makes a space mixed sex, this got short shrift from the judge in GLC vs EHRC in February this year:

The example of the mother taking her young son to use the female lavatory is a bad example. That (and the corresponding practice for fathers and young daughters) is a common practice but is no more than a facet of ordinary parental responsibilities. No one could reasonably or seriously contend that when a mother takes her young son to use a single-sex female lavatory the lavatory ceases to be single-sex.

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/good-law-project-EHRC-AC-2025-1953-judgment-13Feb26.pdf

good law project-EHRC-AC-2025-1953-judgment-13Feb26

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/good-law-project-EHRC-AC-2025-1953-judgment-13Feb26.pdf

Lins77 · Yesterday 15:04

Boiledbeetle · Yesterday 15:03

Breakaways were quite nice. Can you still get them them?

Not sure. I will investigate.

ElenOfTheWays · Yesterday 15:13

Coldwetlettuce · Yesterday 09:11

You’re not just concerned about men accessing women’s spaces though are you? Whenever anyone on here is challenged they just hide behind “but I’m a feminist, I’m fighting for women’s rights, I don’t hate anyone”. Lies. Some women can feel strongly about women’s rights, have valid concerns about women’s safety, and believe it is impossible to change your biological sex, but still sympathise with the struggle trans people endure and show them respect. I’m one of those women. However the MN cult goes much further, you lot won’t admit it, but you hate trans people, especially trans women. It is true bigotry. I think it stems from the already prevalent hatred of men on here. Some of them now wanting to be women is just absolutely intolerable to you due to your pre-existing hated of them. It’s also evident from the multiple threads about hating snowflakes and the “blue-hair brigade” etc, as we all know many trans & NB people would fit this description.

I once commented on one of the bazillions of threads about trans women using women’s toilets on here. I suggested they should use the disabled and new organisations should have a third gender neutral toilet put in when they’re having their toilets built. This would keep women’s toilets for biological women only and it would protect trans women from potential assault and attacks in the men’s. A feminine presenting trans woman is obviously at risk in the men’s. Some of the replies really disgusted me. They were dripping with barely suppressed hatred, a total lack of care about the safety of these HUMAN beings. It seems the MN cult has completely dehumanised these people. Its really gross. The comments included stuff like “it’s not our problem if they get attacked in the men’s”, “if they don’t want to get assaulted then don’t dress like a woman” (imagine the rage if someone suggested a woman is asking to get assaulted because of what she’s wearing), “this would inconvenience disabled people” (less than 1% of the population is trans, they’re not exactly going to be causing queues round the corner 🤣). Those replies said it all really. These people wouldn’t give a shit if a trans woman was raped. Many, I suspect, would secretly (or maybe not secretly on MN) think they deserved it or were asking for it. You can’t argue that’s not pure hatred and transphobia

I'm going to need the receipts of those comments to believe that.
I've been on here for years and probably read almost every thread due to being pretty much housebound these days.
Never seen anything like the comments you describe. So let's see it.

Dontmakemethinkofanotherbloodyusername · Yesterday 15:13

FlatCatYellowMat · Yesterday 13:15

Exactly - I've been on FWR for more than 15 years - I didn't post for ages, had my arse handed to me a couple of times when I dipped my toe in, learned some stuff, picked up the lingo, changed my mind about some things, but not others, robustly challenged in response occasionally, kept to my own moral code as well as the guidelines...

You don't just leap into a long-running forum and expect it to bend to accommodate you - and honestly, compared to the low-carb and spinning forums I've frequented over time, I find the women here to be quite accommodating.

Bend to accommodate you isn't th same as you admitting you had to learn an accepted lingo, change your mind to be in like with group think so as not to face hostility. No one needs accomodating, but hostility isn't the only other alternative.

Dontmakemethinkofanotherbloodyusername · Yesterday 15:16

MarieDeGournay · Yesterday 12:26

How do you account for the existence of new posters [I was one myself!] who join this board and just get on with it?

I didn't do a training course on the 'lore or canon' of the Feminism: Sex and gender discussions board, I came across it by accident, started reading the posts, liked the pragmatic and pro-factual approach to the topic, loved the sense of humour, and yes I wondered WTF things like 'peaking' meant, but I quickly worked it out by context.

I make a point of explaining things like DARVO or The Denton's Document if I refer to them, for the very reason that I know there are new women [and some men] joining the discussion all the time who may also think WTF? like I did.

You are probably right about the reactions of some newcomers and I'm sorry they don't feel they want to stay; but lots of newcomers don't react like that , it feels welcoming and informative and sometimes wrong and sometimes downright silly and often challenging - and they like it and stay.

I know. I was that newcomer😀

I don't quite understand your question as I'm not the one suggesting people can't just join the board and get on with it? I'm just saying hostility from multiple posters in the form of brigading because someone is "wide eyed" and new isn't a sign of an open discussion forum and instead is common amongst groups with a lot of in think and echo chamber tropes.

FlirtsWithRhinos · Yesterday 15:20

Quercus5 · Yesterday 13:45

I like this list of questions to test if you’re in a cult. Can’t remember where I got it from.

  1. Are you capable of entertaining doubt or are you coming from a position of uncertainty
  2. Can you articulate the evidence you would need to see to change your position or is the evidence unfalsifiable
  3. Can you articulate your opponents perspective in a way that they recognise or are you straw-manning
  4. Are you attacking ideas or the people who hold them
  5. Are you willing to cut off close relationships with people who disagree with you particularly over relatively small points of contention
  6. Are you willing to use extraordinary means against people who disagree with you (eg violence, threats of violence, celebrating misfortune and tragedy)

Great questions and ones I ask myself frequently.

However, you would have to think very carefully about how you frame them when material reality is part of the belief in question.

For example, a flat earther might accuse a round-earther of being in a cult.

Let's consider how those questions apply to the belief that the world is a round-ish ball of rock spinning in space, that mass creates an attraction we call gravity which causes small objects (including gas molecules) close to large ones to be pulled to the large one, and causes large objects significant distances apart to fall into (relatively) stable orbits around each other, and it is the presence of two other large objects, also roundish, one very large, far away and hot and one relatively very close and not, and the relative rotations, orbits and declensions of each that between them act on our round earth to produce days, nights, seasons, tides and weather.

Are you capable of entertaining doubt or are you coming from a position of uncertainty

It is certainly possible that there has been a concerted conspiracy or error that has lead this "ball theory" to be taken as true, but it isn't something I typically question or see questioned

Can you articulate the evidence you would need to see to change your position or is the evidence unfalsifiable

Given that any evidence outside my own eyes is vulnerable to the same doubts above, it would have to be a ditect experience so something like I'd have to be taken high above the earth and see that it is not round, and that my "rocket" does not escape earth's orbit into space but hits a solid roof with the moon painted on

Can you articulate your opponents perspective in a way that they recognise or are you straw-manning

Oh easily. The earth is manifestly flat. That is our direct experience. The only reason we ever think it is not is third party materials which are false.

Are you attacking ideas or the people who hold them

Oooo, I want to say ideas, but Flat Earther is an insult so now I feel doubt....

(Skipping the last questions as they are about the identify around the belief rather than the content of the belief)

So you see, lack of flexibility and denial that one might be wrong is framed as indication one is possibly having cult-like thoughts, but are equally the hallmark of knowing sonething is a material fact.

The fact the earth is round is not unfalsifiable - one need only be shown that it is in fact flat. However, in this reality, given everything we collectively believe we know, it is unfalsifiable in practice because such evidence cannot exist.

When I worked through a similar thought process for Gender Critical Feminism, the important insight is that the GC feminist belief is not the reality of sex - in this universe at least, that is a material fact, but the significance of sex.

And ironically it was my answers to just these questions that really clarified and solidified my gender critical perspective.

What evidence would I need to see to accept I am wrong?

Is it evidence that "gender identity" exists as an innate mental state? No. I can entirely accept that this might be true. Even if it was, it would still be something separate to physical sex. It would not change the faxt that female people have been abused, exploited and marginalised because of our physical sex not our gender identity. It would not mean the sex-based needs which single sex protections arose in response to no longer exist. My gender critical Feminist belief is not fundamentally about rejecting gender identity, it is based in recognising the significance and mechanisms of sex-based inequality.

Is it evidence that physical sex has no social, physical or economic consequences? That being female rather than male has no impact on a person's opportunities, experiences or safety?

Yes, absolutely. If that were true, GC Feminism, in fact Feminism in general, would be unnessessary, a false belief.

However, in reality we already know it is not true because the evidence sadly is already there to the contrary.

Like the round vs flat earth, I can imagine what the evidence to prove me wrong would be while also knowing in this reality that such evidence existing is simply not possible.

Igneococcus · Yesterday 15:20

dp (kiwi) still says "Have you done enough for a mallow puff?" when we leave the allotment to indicate that he'd like to stop at the shop on the way home for a cold drink. Neither one of us has had an actual mallow puff for years though.

Secretseverywhere · Yesterday 15:24

KindViper · 11/08/2026 12:37

"No, we're 51% of the human race"

You making a false statement, possibly intentionally in an effort to convince yourself.

Women are 51% of the human race.
GC cultists are not 100% of women.

The overwhelming majority of us do not have a problem with trans-women, do not slavishly idolise a deranged billionaire, and do not exclusively inhabit echo-chambers like this particular sub-forum in the, otherwise rational, MN fora.

A merest glance at the quality of some of the posts that react to anyone espousing pro-trans statements here is as illuminating as it is depressing (but then, given such posts are reactionary in every sense of the word, I'm not surprised).

Are you a cult? Depending on your definition, I'd say so; there are certainly strong cult-like aspects (such as the anti-TRA whataboutery that's going to follow this post), and there is certainly a tribalistic mindset that is vehemently and aggressively against anyone who steps outside the narrow view that pervades here in spades.

The claim you speak for, are representative of, or even acting in the interests of, all women as as laughable as it is untrue.
The rest of us don't agree with you. We don't even especially like you. And we are sure as hell unhappy that your particular brand of rabid pitchfork waving reflects very badly on real feminists and makes it much, much harder to get our views and opinions listened to.

I love this level of over exaggeration. I’m GC but it doesn’t mean I’m anti trans just pro women’s single sex spaces and sports. If people want more inclusion then campaign for open categories and mixed sex spaces. To me it feels like common sense having additional spaces and categories so all are included.

Pingponghavoc · Yesterday 15:37

Diverze · Yesterday 13:50

I am a trans pragmatist and advocate for trans pragmatism.

I agree that sex is fixed and immutable
I have no experience of gender, except that I am a woman with a personality

However I also acknowledge that some people for whatever reason feel deeply uncomfortable in their birth sex and navigate life more easily if they attempt to change the outside - clothing, hairstyle - into those more commonly understood as of the opposite sex in mainstream European society.

I don't think it especially matters why a person might do this, and I don't think it's always fetishistic. All I know is that my adult child is immensely more functional in their chosen form. I think the very strong intersection with autism is not taken into account enough on some of FWR who talk about transpeople as a homogenous group of perverted ill intentioned men based on social media posts of bad apples. Most trans people are if anything rather gentle and vulnerable people in my experience.

I think children should not be facilitated to transition and I don't think it should be actively taught in school, except to say that a few people are transgender and in the community they should be treated kindly like everyone else.

Those who love that person who has decided to transition then often attempt to use chosen names and pronouns because they want that person to feel accepted and loved.

Where things gets muddy is when such a person wants to opt into the rights and privileges of their new gender, or get very angry and/or upset when others recognise their transness and may use a pronoun that the person considers incorrect.

I understand why a trans woman would not want to use the gents toilet when out and about. They have specifically rejected being male.
However, they also need to be realistic that they differ from born women and have no right to those spaces.

Privacy and dignity for ALL is needed and posts on FWR often does not perceive this or care about it.

I think a pragmatic transperson acknowledges their past life, acknowledges that they occupy a liminal position, avoids inserting themselves into spaces that are specifically of their acquired gender, and seeks out a way to live authentically as a TRANS woman or man, using gender mixed or dedicated spaces where it makes a difference (eg my daughter attends trans swimming for dignity reasons, but could happily attend mixed cycling sessions as gender is less of an issue). I think so much of the issue arises from this mistaken notion that the only successful transperson is one who can travel through life unrecognised as their original sex. So much harm arises from this thought - the desire to "trans" children, the desire to access "women only" spaces, the anger and distress at 'misgendering', the wish for falsified papers such as birth certificate. Just acknowledge being trans and that this is ok.

But that's not where we are.

I don't mind if someone uses a trans or mixed sex swim session.

I mind when men claim womens swim sessions.

It could be only one man for every 1000 pragmatic trans people, but that one man is causing the issue. Its not women talking about him, highlighting what he's doing wrong thats causing the issue. Its him.

Privacy and dignity for ALL is needed and posts on FWR often does not perceive this or care about it.

Privacy is often used as an excuse to conceal sex. We need to know everyone's sex for safeguarding. We care about it.

BackToLurk · Yesterday 15:46

Pingponghavoc · Yesterday 15:37

But that's not where we are.

I don't mind if someone uses a trans or mixed sex swim session.

I mind when men claim womens swim sessions.

It could be only one man for every 1000 pragmatic trans people, but that one man is causing the issue. Its not women talking about him, highlighting what he's doing wrong thats causing the issue. Its him.

Privacy and dignity for ALL is needed and posts on FWR often does not perceive this or care about it.

Privacy is often used as an excuse to conceal sex. We need to know everyone's sex for safeguarding. We care about it.

Privacy is often used as an excuse to conceal sex. We need to know everyone's sex for safeguarding. We care about it.

I'd add, we wouldn't need to know everyone's sex if we could be confident that no-one would lie about it. TRAs bang on about 'genital inspections' in the knowledge that many transpeople can't be trusted to reliably use the services and spaces that correspond to their sex.

Pingponghavoc · Yesterday 15:50

I agree, its difficult to focus on the pragmatic trans people when so many trans people are saying that they are going to use the opposite sex facilities.

We have prominent trans identifying men apparently taking photos of themselves in women's toilets, and its FWS who are doing something wrong.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · Yesterday 15:54

Dontmakemethinkofanotherbloodyusername · Yesterday 15:13

Bend to accommodate you isn't th same as you admitting you had to learn an accepted lingo, change your mind to be in like with group think so as not to face hostility. No one needs accomodating, but hostility isn't the only other alternative.

I changed my mind on some things because I was presented with rational arguments and evidence. Some things I keep quiet about because they are off-topic, and because this is a feminist board! I haven't as far as I recall joined in with the Tunnocks obsession; their products are, after all, disgustingly sweet. And yet I have almost always been treated with courtesy and often empathy. Then there's a lot of humour, and some real characters here, some of whom I'm sure I would like in real life, as long as they refrained from plying me with sweet things.

MarieDeGournay · Yesterday 16:02

Dontmakemethinkofanotherbloodyusername · Yesterday 15:16

I don't quite understand your question as I'm not the one suggesting people can't just join the board and get on with it? I'm just saying hostility from multiple posters in the form of brigading because someone is "wide eyed" and new isn't a sign of an open discussion forum and instead is common amongst groups with a lot of in think and echo chamber tropes.

Thank you for clarifying that, Dontmakemethinkofanotherbloodyusername.

You refer to 'brigading' as a characteristic of echo-chamber groups.

By that token, this board isn't, because I don't believe even our most ardent critic could come up with any evidence of brigading.

It'd be like herding mice at a crossroads to get this lot to do something coordinated!😄

BeKindWisely · Yesterday 16:05

Quercus5 · Yesterday 13:45

I like this list of questions to test if you’re in a cult. Can’t remember where I got it from.

  1. Are you capable of entertaining doubt or are you coming from a position of uncertainty
  2. Can you articulate the evidence you would need to see to change your position or is the evidence unfalsifiable
  3. Can you articulate your opponents perspective in a way that they recognise or are you straw-manning
  4. Are you attacking ideas or the people who hold them
  5. Are you willing to cut off close relationships with people who disagree with you particularly over relatively small points of contention
  6. Are you willing to use extraordinary means against people who disagree with you (eg violence, threats of violence, celebrating misfortune and tragedy)

Perfect. Thank you

selffellatingouroborosofhate · Yesterday 16:06

Dontmakemethinkofanotherbloodyusername · Yesterday 15:16

I don't quite understand your question as I'm not the one suggesting people can't just join the board and get on with it? I'm just saying hostility from multiple posters in the form of brigading because someone is "wide eyed" and new isn't a sign of an open discussion forum and instead is common amongst groups with a lot of in think and echo chamber tropes.

Brigading is when people from one forum go to another forum to attack members of the other forum.

Transredditors come here, not the other way around.

Waitwhat23 · Yesterday 16:13

Dontmakemethinkofanotherbloodyusername · Yesterday 15:16

I don't quite understand your question as I'm not the one suggesting people can't just join the board and get on with it? I'm just saying hostility from multiple posters in the form of brigading because someone is "wide eyed" and new isn't a sign of an open discussion forum and instead is common amongst groups with a lot of in think and echo chamber tropes.

I lurked for a full year before I posted so I managed to avoid the oft spotted 'I've come here to tell you you're all so meeeaaan! Third spaces are the obvious answer - why won't you support them!!' to then be directed to the enormous number of threads discussing third spaces to be promply told by TRA's that such spaces are 'transphobic and othering'. Same for 'there's no males in female prisons!!' et al

I would have found the idea of making sneering and often abusive posts on a subject that I only had the most vague and hazy view about to be a bizarre idea. Same with loads of other subjects. I wouldn't be jumping onto a fly fishing forum for example to lambast them for god knows what unless I was very solid on my knowledge.

And there's so many of such types of post. Some 'wide eyed' and others openly gathering screenshots for other platforms. As a pp said, at least here there's an attempt to answer such questions instead of an eye roll and a wall of silence.