The future of gender ideology

[PeachyDaisy]

Is anyone else feeling really pessimistic about the future of women’s sex-based rights?

I know the UK has been doing better than many other countries in pushing back against gender ideology (although there is still a long way to go), but it feels like much of the rest of the Western world has already been captured by it, both culturally and legally.

Looking 50 years into the future, I honestly worry that most Western countries will have moved to self-ID, with only a few exceptions remaining. Hopefully the UK is able to stand firm, but I’m not even confident of that especially if all of the western world has fallen.

I know the gender ideology movement is never going to disappear. It will continue to control universities, many industries, and parts of society. There will also always be a significant number of people who either support, or simply don’t see a problem with, males accessing women’s spaces if they identify as women.

I wonder if others feel the same — that this is a temporary cultural moment that will eventually shift, or whether these changes are likely to become permanent.

I agree... but there are transmen that pre-date 15 years ago. Buck Angel is one and is very convincing as a trans person i.e. someone who experiences unresovable mental anguish deriving from their sex-identifying characteristics.

I do observe a bias with transmen who I have noticed to have deep internalised misogyny/homophobia, are gender non-conforming and same sex attracted individuals who are less likely to to be able to acheive medical transition.

Firstly it is much harder to create a penis then to remove one, but also the medical establishment especially pyschiatry is heavily biased towards men because of the risk that men pose to society with their increased propenstity to be violent.

In essence it isn't because they don't exist, it could be because the medical system has not had the same focus on women, especially same sex attracted women, and that they didn't have the same freedoms in society as men did to explore different idenitiies.

Er, no. I transitioned 15 years ago, and I wasn't the first one to do so, not by far. Female-to-male transition has always existed; it's just that it was nowhere as visible as its male counterpart.

Quite frankly?

1. "Awww, ain't she cute? She wants to be a man! Well, that's just not possible, is it?"
2. "It's all in your head, Ma'am. Here, take those pills."
3. "How dare you want to remove your God-given breasts or modify your God-given genitals!? Don't you know they don't belong to you, but to the men society out there!?
4. "Pffft, you're just sexually unsatisfied. This will right itself out when you find the right man."
5. For the young ones: "No can do. You will want to have children someday, so we can't harm your reproductive functions."

And so on and so forth. So yeah, misogyny at its best.

Yes, I think it's often just a case of holding people's hands as they climb the ladder of absurdity, until they realise how rickety the entire thing is and always has been.

I always think back to the Victoria Derbyshire interview with Emile Ratelband - a 69yo man wanting to officially roll his age back 20 years, as he 100% felt like a 49yo and his doctor told him his body was amazing for his age. Jane Fae - a transwoman - was also on the programme and was actually ridiculing him for his absurdity, constantly saying "But you AREN'T 49; you're 69!!" I'm not certain whether Emile was being totally serious, or whether he was just trying to make a point... but it was glorious! Even so, he was arguably still much less absurd than Jane was, as he had indeed once been 49; whereas Jane will never be a woman.

Yup... its the same with a lot of interactins females have with the medical system. Look at heart attack symptoms for example

Also as a transman you are unlikely to violent if you don't get your way so you are also not a priority in that way.

Its the same with female loneliness. Women just don't get that much attention for it because we are less likely to harm others as a result.

I agree that’s how we’ve got to where we are, but I believe a lot of the men pushing this are perverts fetishists and there are some decent men who would not want their wives and children to be subjected to them. Women’s voices will get louder too, as they see other women being affected. This will become more visible over time.

I definitely think it's a one-way journey.

I understand, totally, why so many people have embraced it though. A men's sexual rights movement which disadvantages women and makes people look progressive?

What's not to like.

But yes, sport is pivotal. Huge amount of money, enjoyed by billions and completely reliant on fair competition.

Plus, one can't forget exactly how the original transactivists needed to make this a phenomenon.

They knew they had to keep it stealth, attach it to LGB and have no debate, whilst positioning it as moral and fair.

Unfortunately for them, turns out that men perceiving an uptick to their sexual rights will suddenly disregard all and any boundaries, whilst threatening everyone who gets in their way.

The semi successful indoctrination of children and young people has also suffered from those same men making it unbelievably unaspirational if not downright cringe.

So whilst I agree it's a gift to certain sections of society that want to keep women down and that's why it enjoys some success, I believe ultimately it will fail.

Starting here, of course 😁

The only tired lines are the are the lines coming from feminist identifying transphobes. This forum gives me a good laugh, it’s like reading the daily mail on steroids except the bigots are a bit more sentient.

So, nothing useful or meaningful to say then to help your "cause"?
Do carry on.
You do our work for us.

Or as noisy, and there's no issues of sexual exhibitionism, or the sexual violence and sexually violent ideation that emanates constantly from within the male part of the community. Women just don't do that.

I think that's one of the things that is worst: the expectation of everyone speaking the lies and denying the elephants; the men wanting to have an infant suckle from their nipples being one - of course that's bloody sexual and wholly inappropriate, but the social prestige at the moment comes from performative wide eyed 'oh it's absolute innocent desire to <insert much aspirational and pseudo profound bollocks here> '

Like men in women's toilets - the evidence is mountainous and stinking that this is in very large part about sexual fetish, sexual experiences involving non consenting women, coercive control and abuse of women while gleefully overriding their needs, wishes, feelings and diversity (and you can do it righteously!) and flat out lower level sex offending on its way up the ladder. But we're all supposed to say 'they only want to pee'.

Which of course must be a lovely thrill to someone into coercively controlling and abusing women.

For me it isn’t just sports, prisons refuges, sex based quotas etc but the horrific permanent harm to children’s minds coming from it all and the constant drip, drip being fed to them.

What was supposed to protect mentally affected people who have dysphoria has become an actively applauded and promoted ‘normal’ way to live.

edited for typos etc

Go and find a couch to rest on then, and sleep well.

it’s a dying cult. I’ve seen it with my youngest who is in year 9. It’s much less common now and the students don’t just kindly affirm it. There’s eye rolling and impatience about it. A recent Pride event in my town was attended by mostly Trans women and a few non binaries.
I know a few of them and they’re opposite sex attracted, So basically straight people .
Wtf has that got to do with Pride?
Nobody believes any of it. When it comes to sports, prisons, bathrooms, women’s groups etc…nobody sane thinks trans women should be able to have the same right to be there as a biological woman. Otherwise known as a WOMAN.
Not CIS.

I hope you are right but people do regularly come to Mumsnet for advice because their child is saying they are trans.

There is the mad Conversion therapy Bill going on.

There was Hilary Cass effectively saying recently in the HoL that there is no way forward but transing for pubescent children who were abused into trans thinking by their parents when they were toddlers.

Self ID leads to predators like Isla Bryson trying to manipulate the system. We need a solution that both protects people like Brianna Ghey from transphobic violence and protects women from manipulative predatory males, but self ID clearly isn’t it.

Trans logic again. Framing one of the most popular newspapers in the country as tired.

"MailOnline is one of the most-read English-language news websites globally, drawing tens of millions of unique visitors every month (often tracking upwards of 20 to 25 million monthly unique visitors in the UK alone, and hundreds of millions globally across mobile and desktop platforms)."

And edited to add that if one needs any further proof that this ideology is imploding, you only have to look at Operation let them speak.

When allowing ideologues as much time as possible to talk about their ideology puts people off it in droves, it tells you everything.

The transphobic element of Brianna Ghey’s dreadful murder was not central to the motivation which seems to have been based in a culture of violence and sadism more generally. The murderers had a list of other targets who were not transgender. B G was chosen when something went wrong with the first (non- transgender) choice.

@MashaPav "The only tired lines are the are the lines coming from feminist identifying transphobes. This forum gives me a good laugh, it’s like reading the daily mail on steroids except the bigots are a bit more sentient."

So just to clarify. You find it funny that women are actually afraid of male violence?

I think this is the position I am taking. I think, unlike many ideologies, it will ultimately fade and end up being derided, but because it has managed to shape law/policy in the UK and elsewhere it may take a while to excise completely. I liken it to ivy: it snuck in and wove itself in and around everything, but the Olympic and other sporting organisations policy changes, are effectively the digging out at roots level, killing those fronds dead. But there is more than one plant and we’ll need to be systematic in exposing and digging out each one.

We need to be able to do the same in schools/PSHE, the NHS. It’s why we need to stop the PB/Pathways trial because if you allow that to proceed there will be 200 odd families, the surrounding clinicians etc, who will have a vested interest in justifying themselves and their actions, so the roots of that particularly pernicious and invasive ivy plant may take a shit load of effort to untwine and remove.

Since there is no "gender ideology" - just individual trans people trying to live their lives, who will keep being born - thank you for this.

I'd really like a world where people entirely ignorant about being trans stop making my son's life worse, and he is safer.

No amount of discussing ridiculous Trans Under The Bed conspiracy theories will ever improve women's lives. Only campaigns against male violence will do that.

We need consent education, actual consequences for sex offenders, and to address rape culture.

The GC movement has succeeded only in making itself vastly unpopular. Targeting the appearance and existence of trans people is not activism. Banning trans women from rolling pastry, and a few Girl Guides from having fun with their mates, has revealed its true colours.

The far right love terfs for a reason. It gets to argue that women are useless at everything compared to men and need the protection of strongmen.

The appalling behaviour of so many terfs - you only have to look at the targeting of Imane Khelif for an example - is vastly off-putting to ordinary people. Discussing children's genitals, mocking asexual people, doxxing trans women and making horrific ableist comments about people who use walking aids or who are autistic - yes I will be glad when that's over.

So, to those people whose whole life revolves around trans hate: do yourself a favour. Stop looking online for trans content and making up ridiculous theories. Stop making yourself paranoid, being angry all the time and getting upset when those who love trans people challenge your behaviour. Recognise the harm you have done - especially to trans children in school, whose lives you are helping destroy by enabling violence against them - and move on. Cheers.

Where do you get that figure from? How do you know that 80% are believers, rather than a minority being believers, and the others pretending that they are?

I honestly can't be buggered to address the delulu any more, what is the point?

Other people have rights too. Sorry about that. Just leave women, children and gay people alone and we'll all get on fine.

Judging by the make-up of and comments maof my uni department (admittedly Creative Arts), 80% rabid adherence to GI would be an understatement :(

Yep, there is no point. They are losing ground every day. Don’t waste your energy or time.

So, to those people whose whole life revolves around trans hate: do yourself a favour. Stop...

I almost miss the days when trans people would come on and write a whole screed about their entire lives, to convince women to give up.

Instead of just repeating stop, stop now, stop immediately, stop I say. Stop or else.