UK radical feminists; what to do?

[RealRoseCritic]

So there was a question earlier today in one of my groups about TERFs in the UK, why are they so strong there, etc. Let me elaborate on something.

There is something special in mainstream British feminism that is quite different from European feminism(s), but since the English speaking internet concerns mostly the Anglosphere and not Europe, due to us having separate, isolated debates in each country/language, you won't likely ever hear how the UK is substantially different.
It is important to understand the logic of British feminism. Unlike European feminism, which is mostly inclusive and focused on stuff like equal pay, care, safe design of public space and general equity, in the UK it was always about "separate but equal".

British centres of power were always men-only, and many British feminists didn't react the way European women did (aka pushed their way into male spaces, so that these became co-ed spaces), but created their own, separate spaces, which they then aggressively policed the same way British men did with theirs. Add some Victorian prudishness and bioessentialism, that was abandoned in Europe after WWII for obvious reasons, but not in the UK, and voilà, here come British second-wave radfems and the TERFs.

I am from the Czech Republic where I currently live; I lived in Norway, Poland and the Netherlands, I speak fluently multiple European languages and understand few others; I don't say that to brag, but to show my ability to do the comparative analysis, since I study the topic closely.

Out of EU member states, only in Bulgaria and Hungary are trans rights worse than in the UK at the moment, with Hungary being expected to get substantially better soon, and in neither of those two countries are trans people, and especially trans women, as demonised as in the UK.

In all EU member states transphobia comes exclusively from far right places; it is unheard of that liberals or anyone non-far right would say what is absolutely the mainstream in the UK, including Hungary and Bulgaria.
If you are saying the stuff JKR is saying, you are 100 % aligned with far right politics.

We had an attempt by a group of our far right senators to enact a bill proposal similar to what is in the UK, but the proposal was killed within a week before it could have been even voted upon in the Chamber of Deputies. Just for instance.
Scandinavian feminism is focused mostly on fair share of care and chores, German feminism focuses mostly on equal pay, Kita for everyone and the like, Polish feminism is mostly about access to abortion, Czech feminism is mostly about equal pay and safety from domestic violence - I could go on, but all in all, men are welcome to participate and the goal is to create equity for everyone, regardless of their gender. Together.
We don't get British obsession with separate spaces for women, women here are absolutely fine with the way things are, mostly because cultures in the Continent are far less prudish and overall we treat men and women as one people rather than different species.

Moreover, because of civil law rather than common law, we have different approach to legal texts and their interpretations; this makes it different too.
Not just regarding trans rights, but also regarding women's rights, I am often amazed by how much backward the UK is in so many ways compared to the EU (again, including places like Hungary, this needs to be stressed). I often see women in English-speaking debates saying things like "ugh, men" on things that actually concern problems that are specifically British and that stem mostly from both societies' tendency to separate already boys from girls, treating them differently and sexualising women in contexts we don't really see as sexual at all.

We can't really get this across the Channel, because we just don't have the power to do so. For instance Czech debate on feminism is quite isolated; it's interesting, but no more than 15 million people would ever be able to participate in it (CZ/SK) due to the language barrier, the same goes for Scandinavia (17 million), Benelux (28 million), Poland (38 million), or even DACH (95 million). It is nothing compared to half a billion people of the US, UK, CA, AU, NZ and IE that are giving tone to the worldwide debate in English.

So, if you are a British trans woman, you would do yourself a great favour if you moved to mainland Europe. You will be welcomed and cherished (for the most part).

If this is directed at me, you misunderstood.
It is Greta who seems to not have thought this through.

He’s off designing toilets.

Lol. I have quoted Amnesty, a court report, and academic reports on cardiac arrests and pathogens in toilets. I can quote the Guardian and Mirror (two more left wing publications over here) on toilets and voyeurism if you like. Facts, coroners reports, data, court reports, statistics, legislation, regulations is what I use in my research. I have collated more on toilet incidents than you’ve had barbecues. You may be shocked to learn your views don’t align with the Communist Party over here too.

And none of that conveniently addresses your claim about broad single private spaces in toilets sentiment in Australia.

Again, there is no broad grass roots activism or lobbying on single sex spaces in toilets from women only fringe actors & right wing media in AUSTRALIA.

And please don't waste my time on more irrelevant obfuscation.

And please don't waste my time on more irrelevant obfuscation.

Hear hear!

Sorry, read in a hurry.

😂No worries, I am not doing this for you mate. No facts or statistics will change your mind. I doing this to show you have no credible response other than insults to anyone else who is interested in toilet design and safety.

Has anyone explained yet why it's reasonable that the half of humanity that is female should have no name, no rights based on our sex to counteract the social risks and consequences of our sex, indeed no legal or socially recognised existence at all?

Has anyone explained yet why the history of female people's oppression and fight for respect and equality should be appropriated and applied to men to whom in reality none of it would have happened simply because those men now claim the word "woman" means them too?

No, thought not.

In case it needs pointing out to the hard of thinking, the issue with TWAW is not at heart what risks trans women may or not pose to women, it is that accepting TW as women erases female people is society and law and replaces it with a version of womanhood defined by sexist beliefs about innately gendered personalities that is imposed upon all female people regardless of who we in reality know ourselves to be.

Australians apparently can have names for people from different parts of Australia or the classes they do not have (Ocker) yet somehow cannot find it in themselves to respect the female half of humanity enough to allow us a name ourselves. It's either very very odd, or very very very sexist.

At an even volume, with a clear pause between each word.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Sal & Rupe gave it their best shot &….🦗 all except for the SUPREME COURT who told Helen Joyce to her face that she was an AMATEUR who had no business pontificating on issues she had no expertise in. 😚

And you think the monumental legal quagmire, mass confusion not to mention enormous economic costs that's been the 'fruit' of this wowser dunny clown show is somehow going to 'inspire' foreign governments?

I'm sure it will but not in the way you think.

No its not. The fastest female parkrun time in Australia is held by Caitlin Adams who is a cis female.

First no such thing as a 'cis' woman, we're just women.
Second I was going by a post from someone in Australia, I didn't fact check them, my mistake. I fact checked yours and you're wrong with the name but the fastest is a woman in Aus, it seems it's the UK that had 3 female records that were held by males, until ParkRun stopped all 'gender' records, so now who knows.
You seem to have responded to a post you could correct, any chance you going to respond to any of the many that you can't?

Over-the-top hyperbole and maniacal laughter.

I rest my case.

And yet, female people still exist, and being female still has consequences whatever the Australian courts may say and even if the Australian media doesn't like to acknowledge it.

Legislating that sexism and sexist/sexual abuse can't happen to female bodied people because of our female bodies because female bodied people do not in fact exist, and even if they did exist no one would be able to tell who they are anyway, sadly doesn't mean that sexism and sexist/sexual abuse will no longer be happening to female bodied people because of our female bodies in areas where such laws have jurisdiction.

So sexism and sexist/sexual abuse will continue to happen to female bodied people because of our female bodies even in Australia.

It's just that female bodied people facing sexism and sexist/sexual abuse because of our female bodies in Australia can no longer trust the law to protect them.

Well done Australia!

No its not. The fastest female parkrun time in Australia is held by Caitlin Adams who is a cis female.

Are you sure about that mate?

Take a breath. Maybe a short walk in the fresh air.

This is a good example of why nobody wants to be around the zombies.

The simple facts are that humans are mammals that are male or female, sex can't change, men commit 99% of sex attacks and 80% of violent crime.

Women need our rights, and we will not accede to aggressive, violent, porn-addled men.

Mental health issues need evidence based support and treatment.

By middle aged, women have seen men have every shade of tantrum under the sun. It's all boringly familiar.

I think the award for great posts on this thread is going to @WrongKindOfFeminist.

I think it is bedtime down under and maybe he's a bit overtired.

Does he deserve milk and cookies before bedtime?

.... I think not.

Anyway I'm off to a French Café for a 1pm coffee and cake session. After this morning's mansplaining I think a Grimbut t-shirt is in order.

Au revoir EuroTERFs.

It's worth noting the emotive coercion and attempts to smear, intimidate, shame, or guilt trip.

Particularly in relation to women's sexuality. Over and over women who don't submit are sneered at for their supposed lack of desirability.

We are called 'old', 'prudes', and 'ugly'.

The other common trope is deriding women's voices. Shrill, shrieking, frothing, etc.

Women are supposed to look attractive and stay silent. And that's all.

That is a lot of confidence built on a pile of national stereotypes.

First, the UK is not an EU member state, so your claim that “out of EU member states” only Bulgaria and Hungary have worse trans rights than the UK falls at the first hurdle. More importantly, you never define “trans rights”. Trans people in Britain have the same human rights as everyone else and gender reassignment is an expressly protected characteristic under the Equality Act 2010. What actual human right is missing? There is no human right for a male person to be treated as female in every context or admitted to every female-only service.

British feminism was not historically about “separate but equal”. British women fought to enter universities, professions and Parliament; to control their own property; to vote on the same terms as men; to receive equal pay; and to outlaw sex discrimination. The Equal Pay Act 1970 and Sex Discrimination Act 1975 did not create a parallel female society. They opened public life to women.

Retaining some single-sex provision alongside equal participation is not segregation. It is equality that accounts for bodily privacy, dignity, safety, sex-based violence and physical difference. Men may support feminism, but feminism is not obliged to centre males or let them redefine women.

Nor is single-sex provision uniquely British or Victorian. EU Directive 2004/113/EC expressly recognises single-sex shelters, privacy and decency, women’s associations and sex-specific sport as legitimate aims. Continental law therefore knows perfectly well that treating the sexes equally does not require pretending sex never matters.

Trans women are male. Saying that is not “demonising” anyone; it is the relevant material fact. In For Women Scotland [2025] UKSC 16, the Supreme Court unanimously confirmed that man, woman and sex in the Equality Act mean biological sex. It also explicitly confirmed that trans people remain protected under gender reassignment. Both things can be true: protect trans people from unlawful discrimination and retain coherent sex-based rights. That is a balance of rights, not hatred.

Your “third-worst” ranking needs both a source and a definition. Is it measuring legal recognition, employment protection, healthcare or access to the opposite sex’s services? If a league table awards points for allowing males into female provision, it measures compliance with gender-identity ideology, not human rights. Again: name the human right that a trans person lacks, rather than an asserted entitlement to override somebody else’s rights.

The claim that sex realism is “exclusively far right” is simply guilt by association. British gender-critical feminists include lifelong socialists, Labour voters, lesbians, trade unionists and left-wing academics. A position does not become right-wing because somebody on the right agrees with it. Calling JKR or anyone else “far right” does not answer a single thing she has said.

You cannot speak for “women in Europe” either. Women are not a hive mind and an absence of open debate is not consent. The EU itself records widespread male violence against women and its law recognises privacy, refuges and other sex-specific provision. Women wanting males excluded from intimate or trauma-sensitive spaces do not think men and women are different species. They know humans have two sexes, and that those sexes have different bodies and very different patterns of sexual offending. That remains true in Prague, Paris and London.

Civil law versus common law may help explain differences in legal procedure. It does not establish that a male can become female or that female boundaries are immoral. The reach of English-language debate may explain visibility; it does not establish truth. Nor have you supplied evidence that British single-sex spaces cause sexism or sexualisation. You have merely asserted it.

As for advising British trans-identifying males to move abroad: people may live wherever they lawfully choose. It answers nothing about the rights of women here.

And your only later contribution is revealing. You arrived on a feminist board, called British women prudes, bioessentialists, TERFs and far-right, then suggested that disagreement shows a defective moral compass. That is not comparative analysis. It is a very long argument for why women should stop saying no.

No. Women’s rights are human rights. Woman means adult human female; trans women are male; and equal treatment has never required women to surrender their privacy, dignity, safety or language in order to prove that they are kind.

Oh yes how many times have we heard from particularly loudmouthed TW stating with total conviction how they are more female than actual real biologically female women. Their reasoning is because they spend more time on their hair, nails, dress, shoes with coordinating handbags. They also see no qualms in criticising real women about their weight and judging their lack of effort In their appearance. In their warped minds that is the sum of being female, being a woman. They will never understand or experience what being a woman is.

"Sois belle et tais-toi!" , as we say in France.

Me too. I mean I know our own virtuous and trustworthy @Boiledbeetle is investing it for us but I am pining for a personal swimming pool and a luxury cruise or six