UK radical feminists; what to do?

[RealRoseCritic]

So there was a question earlier today in one of my groups about TERFs in the UK, why are they so strong there, etc. Let me elaborate on something.

There is something special in mainstream British feminism that is quite different from European feminism(s), but since the English speaking internet concerns mostly the Anglosphere and not Europe, due to us having separate, isolated debates in each country/language, you won't likely ever hear how the UK is substantially different.
It is important to understand the logic of British feminism. Unlike European feminism, which is mostly inclusive and focused on stuff like equal pay, care, safe design of public space and general equity, in the UK it was always about "separate but equal".

British centres of power were always men-only, and many British feminists didn't react the way European women did (aka pushed their way into male spaces, so that these became co-ed spaces), but created their own, separate spaces, which they then aggressively policed the same way British men did with theirs. Add some Victorian prudishness and bioessentialism, that was abandoned in Europe after WWII for obvious reasons, but not in the UK, and voilà, here come British second-wave radfems and the TERFs.

I am from the Czech Republic where I currently live; I lived in Norway, Poland and the Netherlands, I speak fluently multiple European languages and understand few others; I don't say that to brag, but to show my ability to do the comparative analysis, since I study the topic closely.

Out of EU member states, only in Bulgaria and Hungary are trans rights worse than in the UK at the moment, with Hungary being expected to get substantially better soon, and in neither of those two countries are trans people, and especially trans women, as demonised as in the UK.

In all EU member states transphobia comes exclusively from far right places; it is unheard of that liberals or anyone non-far right would say what is absolutely the mainstream in the UK, including Hungary and Bulgaria.
If you are saying the stuff JKR is saying, you are 100 % aligned with far right politics.

We had an attempt by a group of our far right senators to enact a bill proposal similar to what is in the UK, but the proposal was killed within a week before it could have been even voted upon in the Chamber of Deputies. Just for instance.
Scandinavian feminism is focused mostly on fair share of care and chores, German feminism focuses mostly on equal pay, Kita for everyone and the like, Polish feminism is mostly about access to abortion, Czech feminism is mostly about equal pay and safety from domestic violence - I could go on, but all in all, men are welcome to participate and the goal is to create equity for everyone, regardless of their gender. Together.
We don't get British obsession with separate spaces for women, women here are absolutely fine with the way things are, mostly because cultures in the Continent are far less prudish and overall we treat men and women as one people rather than different species.

Moreover, because of civil law rather than common law, we have different approach to legal texts and their interpretations; this makes it different too.
Not just regarding trans rights, but also regarding women's rights, I am often amazed by how much backward the UK is in so many ways compared to the EU (again, including places like Hungary, this needs to be stressed). I often see women in English-speaking debates saying things like "ugh, men" on things that actually concern problems that are specifically British and that stem mostly from both societies' tendency to separate already boys from girls, treating them differently and sexualising women in contexts we don't really see as sexual at all.

We can't really get this across the Channel, because we just don't have the power to do so. For instance Czech debate on feminism is quite isolated; it's interesting, but no more than 15 million people would ever be able to participate in it (CZ/SK) due to the language barrier, the same goes for Scandinavia (17 million), Benelux (28 million), Poland (38 million), or even DACH (95 million). It is nothing compared to half a billion people of the US, UK, CA, AU, NZ and IE that are giving tone to the worldwide debate in English.

So, if you are a British trans woman, you would do yourself a great favour if you moved to mainland Europe. You will be welcomed and cherished (for the most part).

The seething rage and woman-hatred is unfortunately never far from the surface.

Yeah, you're probably right. It certainly makes for a great Operation Let Them Speak.

That innate maleness is never too far from the surface.

In answer to the question 'UK radical feminists; what to do?' I say that we let out a huge cheer for them. Thank goodness for them and their tenacity and courage in the face of a male sexual rights movement that is extremely damaging to women and girls and children in general. Thanks to them the UK is turning back the tide, one court case at a time. So here's to them, long may they (we) prevail.

So transwomen are harmful in such spaces but not public toilets?

When and how do transwomen present harm to women?

News 24 formerly Sky News owned by Rupert Murdoch who is a notorious right wing propagandist & uses all his news outlets accordingly including many major news publications in Australia, The UK & USA that are responsible for ushering in oppressive right wing governments globally is an indisputable fact.

You know about his fox network in the US who was sued for nearly a billion dollars for pushing the stolen election lie? Or the disgraceful phone tapping scam in the UK?

That you are attempting to use some random poll from a notorious political propaganda outlet as evidence proof of trans sentiment rather than any concrete broad activism is not only laughable but truly unconscionable.

While you're here, @Keeptoiletssafe, I have a UK-based question. I know your info on single sex toilet design includes a specified maximum size for the top and bottom of door gaps, but I don't remember seeing a minimum. Is there one?

I've been spending a lot of time in motorway service stations the past few weeks, and it occurred to me that many of them now have much smaller gaps than they used to - not really enough to fulfil most of the functions that they should. They prevent the damp corner problem and let sound through, but give minimal ventilation and no meaningful visibility if someone collapses.

Giving yourself an uppercut is common Australian jokey saying. Its not literal but by all means go ahead & take it out of context like everything else to get a cheap clap from the peanut gallery.

Honestly, the bad faith on this forum is world class & why wouldn't it be if they have no argument other than 'because I said so'.

bad faith 😂

why are you here if it is so awful

Someone has to lift standards.

We are okay as anonymous posters on here, I really do feel for the women and children who may encounter these aggressive, women-hating men in real life.

@Gretel346 You never did answer my question as to why we have separate facilities / events for men and women in the first place?

Oh look an actual Australian who doesn't have the same opinion as you @Gretel346

On Australia’s change to 50% mixed sex toilets:
One builder told The Telegraph that the “bloody pointless” change “is the last thing this industry needs”.
“We’re trying to keep things simple, cheap, and functional and some clown from Canberra comes in with feel-good rubbish like this,” he said."

I suppose when you downunder left is right and right is left, which explains why Gretel doesn't recognise which side the fascism is coming from. Hint it's the side your shilling for.

Do you think it's fair that the fastest women's time in ParkRun, Aus is held by a male.

Lol. I have quoted Amnesty, a court report, and academic reports on cardiac arrests and pathogens in toilets. I can quote the Guardian and Mirror (two more left wing publications over here) on toilets and voyeurism if you like. Facts, coroners reports, data, court reports, statistics, legislation, regulations is what I use in my research. I have collated more on toilet incidents than you’ve had barbecues. You may be shocked to learn your views don’t align with the Communist Party over here too.

But I don’t care about anyone’s politics. I care about the reality of safe toilet design. I will also listen to everyone’s views to see if they can come up with anything novel that no one else has come up with. Things that have been tried with mixed sex designs: weighted floors (doors won’t close if it’s too heavy signifying 2 users - no good for parents and children and fat shaming), glass walls (men masturbate), alarms that respond to ‘help me’ ‘stop it’ (too expensive and difficult to respond to, misused, mistaken for visual cameras, people don’t like automatic sound surveillance, people afraid to fart in case it sets off the alarm). If you think you can beat everyone else in the world at creating a safe mixed sex public toilet, tell me your ideas. The nearest is the Portland Toilet in America which I wouldn’t fancy using unless desperate because of voyeurism.

Here’s some toilet humour to brighten your night in Australia:

alarms that respond to ‘help me’ ‘stop it’

Clearly an idea dreamt up by someone who's never tried to use a voice recognition system. My voicemail one can barely tell yes from no, never mind decipher anything more complex.

Im a roasted peanut EuroTerf just in case anyone is buying.

No there is not a minimum for single sex public toilets. Mixed sex toilets (universal/accessible/gender-neutral) have to be floor to ceiling in privacy and in rooms rather than cubicles. In Approved Document T (for England) it states 1.22 The layout when entering, exiting and using a toilet room or cubicle should cater for the safety,
privacy and dignity of users. Cubicle doors should only open into single-sex toilet accommodation.
Now since we know since FWS that single-sex washrooms are single sex washrooms, it follows that a 150mm for health and safety can return. Voyeurism is overwhelmingly a male crime on females. There are no females in prison for voyeurism (up to May 25). Oh that gives me an excuse for a ‘left-wing’ article.https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/may/27/secret-spy-cameras-voyeurism-uk
You see, going into a single sex toilet washroom and filming over the cubicle is so 2000 when you can set up a camera in a hidden compartment.

Back to measurements. In the past few years the Department for Education had a maximum 5mm floor-door gap set in their floor to ceiling designs as many of them led onto a mixed sex environment. The designs were all about privacy. I think privacy was mentioned 5 times in the toilet section, whereas safety wasn’t mentioned in this section at all. The 5mm was set as the gap that would prevent a mobile phone camera being used. This year, the DfE have changed the designs to single sex suites. They have the option of full height design but you can have door gaps above and below the door. This, as I keep saying, is better for cleaning, ventilation, supervision and prevention of misuse.

We just know they wouldn't work for a Scottish accent.

Imagine being assaulted and having to conjure up the correct RP to call for help.

Well, I just read your post wrong.
Ar first glance, I saw:
"It sounds like someone stepped in Queer Theory."
And I thought to myself, now that's something you wouldn't want all over your shoes.

You need us to explain why women and men compete separately in sports?

Just how ignorant of physiology are you?

😅Schools can personalise them as the tech was originally for the American Market I believe, specially for ‘gender neutral’ restrooms (enclosed, not open stalls). I bet there wasn’t an ‘excuse me, I don’t suppose you have any loo paper in there you could pass me?’ prompt. Can’t do that without a floor gap.

"One builder told The Telegraph" aka The Daily Rupert

😂

"I suppose when you downunder left is right and right is left, which explains why Gretel doesn't recognise which side the fascism is coming from. Hint it's the side your shilling for."

I don't hear any complaints…except from The Daily R.

Do you think it's fair that the fastest women's time in ParkRun, Aus is held by a male.

No its not. The fastest female parkrun time in Australia is held by Caitlin Adams who is a cis female.

Oh, has the OP not come back to engage?

#sarcasm

There seem to be a lot of "Australian" activists on FWR at the moment, trying to "school" UK women about what they should or shouldn't be doing with regard to enforcing the law, and keeping men out of female single -sex spaces. There was one on my Ignore the Supreme Court thread, arguing that forcing people to obey the law would somehow not work to ensure that people would obey the law???? Current holding forth on another thread they started. And now we have "Gretel."

It seems to me that activists (both in Australia and outwith) are starting to get scared. They see the momentum building here in the UK, and even in the US, and they are wondering when it will filter down to Australia.

To them I say: your fear is palpable and it's showing. Enjoy your last few days in the stolen sunshine because your imaginary world is closing down. Rapidly. And it's women in the UK leading the charge.