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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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11
TransParentlyAnnoyed · 09/08/2026 22:35

EdithStourton · 09/08/2026 21:54

I fail to see how Apollo441 is 'sexualising breastfeeding'.

Because breastfeeding is not a sexual activity. It hurts, and is about bonding. Trans women very occasionally do it, in incredibly small numbers, supported by health visitors.

Assuming that a theoretical trans woman who may attend this group obtains sexual pleasure from bonding with their baby is sexualising that activity.

It's rooted in revulsion at any woman feeding her baby, which I and many other cis women have experienced

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 09/08/2026 22:38

Datun · 09/08/2026 22:10

Lol. Men can't breastfeed. And you might want to have a word with your cohort members and suggest they stop plastering their lactation fetish from one end of the Internet to the other.

It's not like they make a secret of it.

My what now?

Jfc. Learn the difference between trans men and women, stop watching trans porn and do something useful to help women.

I repeat: there is no evidence any chestfeeding trans women have even attended the Queer Milk support group.

Yet someone has reported them to the police?! Of course.

Pizzagate all over again.

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 09/08/2026 22:40

MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/08/2026 22:00

The poster is talking about safeguarding babies from men with a fetish - along with protecting the mother / baby breastfeeding relationship.

You might find it useful to do a bit of learning about safeguarding children - there's a lot of expertise on here from both other parents and experienced professionals. Some of your rather ranty posts suggest you may have misunderstood some of the basic principles of safeguarding vulnerable children from adults with an agenda.

And nobody should ever be defending men wanting to breastfeed babies.

You might want to learn some basic reading comprehension.

It's a support group for everyone LGBTQIA+, to have a chat and get support.

Yet you've all gone full Pizzagate on it.

Some of you desperately want this to be true and are utterly ignoring the facts.

Datun · 09/08/2026 22:51

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 09/08/2026 22:35

Because breastfeeding is not a sexual activity. It hurts, and is about bonding. Trans women very occasionally do it, in incredibly small numbers, supported by health visitors.

Assuming that a theoretical trans woman who may attend this group obtains sexual pleasure from bonding with their baby is sexualising that activity.

It's rooted in revulsion at any woman feeding her baby, which I and many other cis women have experienced

Breastfeeding is about keeping babies alive using tailor-made milk, that can detect if the baby is a boy or girl, or is sick, tired, or dehydrated.

Men know they can't sustain the life of a baby, so all they have left to fall back on is pretend bonding.

No man bonds with a baby by disrupting its feeding dynamic.

if men don't want people to think it's sexual, then maybe stop boasting about it online.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/08/2026 22:52

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 09/08/2026 22:40

You might want to learn some basic reading comprehension.

It's a support group for everyone LGBTQIA+, to have a chat and get support.

Yet you've all gone full Pizzagate on it.

Some of you desperately want this to be true and are utterly ignoring the facts.

Some of your somewhat unhinged allegations against women really do display a dislike and contempt for women. Have you ever thought about why you spend so much time on here hurling insults at women?

Still - do continue - it's very revealing watching a poster ranting and making accusations against women when that poster is promoting men's sexual based desires to "breastfeed" a baby.

As the saying goes, "when someone shows you who they really are, believe them.."

I won't engage further - I'm sure you'd be better off with a cup of chamomile tea rather than challenging my reading comprehension.
Go well.

Datun · 09/08/2026 22:53

Trans women very occasionally do it, in incredibly small numbers, supported by health visitors.

Nope. Men can't breastfeed.

Hoardasurass · 09/08/2026 22:53

Well there seems to be more information or should I say lack of information about this helpline coming out
https://x.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/2086335963958055401?s=20

Link to the scot gov data from the tweet for those not on X
https://t.co/o8mz1PFRDU

So this looks like Scot Gov has gone tits up again
TransParentlyAnnoyed · 09/08/2026 23:25

MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/08/2026 22:52

Some of your somewhat unhinged allegations against women really do display a dislike and contempt for women. Have you ever thought about why you spend so much time on here hurling insults at women?

Still - do continue - it's very revealing watching a poster ranting and making accusations against women when that poster is promoting men's sexual based desires to "breastfeed" a baby.

As the saying goes, "when someone shows you who they really are, believe them.."

I won't engage further - I'm sure you'd be better off with a cup of chamomile tea rather than challenging my reading comprehension.
Go well.

Once again, the group is for LGBTQIA+ parents.

To feed their babies using their own or bought milk.

There is no evidence a chestfeeding trans woman ever atyended.

it's not misogynistic to point out thi s forum's packed with people (lots of them men) eager to be offended by trans people.

Even imaginary ones.

This is QAnon stuff. Pizzagate on hormones. My God get a better hobby than pretending you're heroes 'safeguarding' fictional kids.

Datun · 09/08/2026 23:27

MrsOvertonsWindow · 09/08/2026 22:00

The poster is talking about safeguarding babies from men with a fetish - along with protecting the mother / baby breastfeeding relationship.

You might find it useful to do a bit of learning about safeguarding children - there's a lot of expertise on here from both other parents and experienced professionals. Some of your rather ranty posts suggest you may have misunderstood some of the basic principles of safeguarding vulnerable children from adults with an agenda.

And nobody should ever be defending men wanting to breastfeed babies.

Some of your rather ranty posts suggest you may have misunderstood some of the basic principles of safeguarding vulnerable children from adults with an agenda.

I do sometimes wonder if that poster genuinely believes that their posts come across as sincere in any way! And not a cross between a risibly transparent goad and as overtly insulting as they can get away with.

ElenOfTheWays · 10/08/2026 00:17

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 09/08/2026 20:03

It's a charity supporting gay, asexual, intersex and trans parents, whatever kind of milk they use to feed their babies. A safe space where they can chat about their experiences as parents.

Trans men can struggle with chestfeeding, and it's great that they have this support. They can also get a lot of hostility feeding their babies in public, so a safe space is vital.

Seriously who wouldn't support that.

...okay people who want to claim it's all about promoting trans women feeding their babies.

But it's not. It's a support group who welcomes everyone LGBTQIA+

That would include the very few trans women who feed their babies, yeah. If they turned up. It's not a pressure group.

Please, Mumsnetters, stop falling for this. You complain when trans guys have top surgery, howl when they're supported to chestfeed. Maybe just confront your own transphobia and move on?

It. Is. A. Support. Group. For. All. LGBTQIA+. People.

Fuck! I thought Baileyonice was a creepy fucker - and he is, stomach turningly, nauseatingly so, but I'm now not sure you aren't even worse.
You are DEFENDING this shit?
What the Hell is wrong with you?

And... chestfeeding my arse! Who actually talks like that?

RunningforSam · 10/08/2026 05:53

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 09/08/2026 22:35

Because breastfeeding is not a sexual activity. It hurts, and is about bonding. Trans women very occasionally do it, in incredibly small numbers, supported by health visitors.

Assuming that a theoretical trans woman who may attend this group obtains sexual pleasure from bonding with their baby is sexualising that activity.

It's rooted in revulsion at any woman feeding her baby, which I and many other cis women have experienced

There are many ways to bond with a baby. Many women can’t or don’t breastfeed their babies and form perfectly healthy bonds with their babies. It is ludicrous to suggest that males should be supported to breast feed for bonding purposes. At best, the motivation is fulfilling a deeply held desire, at worst it is fetish based.

You frequent suggestion is that posters have fixed, negative and sinister views about people with trans identities. Your posts indicate you have fixed, positive and optimistic views. In reality, people with trans identities are a diverse group comprising all kinds of people. One sub group are males with AGP, another is very distressed and vulnerable teens. Whilst some posters can be seem to hold predominantly negative views of trans people, you seem to hold unrealistically idealised views.

I get why, when looking at this board, people feel dismayed by the lack of balance. None of the threads are about trans people who are making a positive contribution to the world, or even those who have a benign presence. This is because that information isn’t relevant to the issues the board sets out to focus on - sex based rights and where and when sex matters. It does single out and amplify dangerous males with trans identities and amplify the problems with ‘gender affirming care’. This is to highlight, collect and share evidence regarding existing concerns.

If you really want to change the views of people on this board, start from where posters are posting, rather than bring wider evidence or points. You posted recognition that some trans women are supported to breast feed by health visitors. You seem to imply that because health visitors are involved, that there should not be a concern. I am concerned about the lack of transparency in health and care providers positioning here. They haven’t explained, despite being asked, why or how this benefits infants. Why do you think this is?

Helleofabore · 10/08/2026 06:41

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 09/08/2026 22:35

Because breastfeeding is not a sexual activity. It hurts, and is about bonding. Trans women very occasionally do it, in incredibly small numbers, supported by health visitors.

Assuming that a theoretical trans woman who may attend this group obtains sexual pleasure from bonding with their baby is sexualising that activity.

It's rooted in revulsion at any woman feeding her baby, which I and many other cis women have experienced

I echo Datun’s post. You need to tell the very male people who have sexualised it this, not the female people who are concerned about the abuse potential of the action.

No male body has the capacity to ever because the integrated feeding system that infants need. And yet, there are doctors around the world and breastfeeding associations who are actively supporting the male demand to be able to do this.

Meaning it is most definitely not infant centred. Certainly, the infant is the focus, but if the only ‘benefit’ is bonding, then there is a significant issue to be discussed.

You are confident that so far no male person has used the service. Which would you prefer, a clear infant centred policy to be put in place now as it should have always been or a male service user to be discovered and then becoming the focus of the pressure to put in place the policy?

And by the way, if there are no male people being assisted by this service, the discussion is still valuable because other services are allowing male people to feed untested secretions from their nipples. How about this service’s policies that are open to male people to make use of don’t get copied by another organisation that will have male people. Just as Brighton NHS trust did. We know that organisations simply copy another’s policy, we heard it all about that in the NHS Fife tribunal.

If your argument always falls back to the emotional reasoning of ‘it is not even an issue right now…’ you are never going to have a strong argument.

Either it is worth protecting infants or it is not.

Helleofabore · 10/08/2026 06:42

Helleofabore · 27/07/2026 21:45

Just adding some posts for the inevitable posts about how male
secretions are perfectly fine to feed to infants - when there is nof evidence at all to support that .

"Why do men need to breast feed babies? Whose interest is that in?"

These male people tell us why. We just need to listen:

This may need a content warning, so be warned this link show males talking about the amazing electric charge they get from infants feeding from their nipples amongst other things.

https://www.them.us/story/trans-women-breastfeed

This is an illuminating read and shows insight into the motivations for these male people who seek to do this.
What is very clear, is that this is NEVER about the child. This is never child centred. This is all about the male person's demands being met.
Cow Achievement apparently

https://www.tiktok.com/@nominal.naomi/video/7235719967327456558

Yet, we are being told by posters that this is all child centred and is just for the infant.

There are plenty of more examples out there.

Including the one from a male feeding from their nipple about the 'electric' nipple sensation with an infant latching and how mother's must spend their days in an erotic fantasy while breast feeding.

Here are some male people you can start telling off @TransParentlyAnnoyed.

Helleofabore · 10/08/2026 06:44

Helleofabore · 27/07/2026 22:07

A reminder of how the female breast is part of a complete feeding system and no male breast has this ability.

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/19f8K414tC/?mibextid=wwXIfr

In 2008, Katie Hinde stood in a California primate lab staring at hundreds of milk samples. Male babies got richer milk. Females got more volume. Science had missed half the conversation.

She was a postdoctoral researcher at the California National Primate Research Center, analyzing milk from rhesus macaque mothers. For months, she'd been measuring fat content, protein levels, mineral concentrations. The data showed something she hadn't expected: monkey mothers were producing completely different milk depending on whether they'd given birth to sons or daughters.

Sons received milk with higher concentrations of fat and protein—more energy per ounce. Daughters received more milk overall, with higher calcium levels. The biological recipe wasn't universal. It was customized.

Hinde ran the numbers again. The pattern held across dozens of mother-infant pairs. This wasn't random variation. This was systematic.

She thought about what she'd been taught in graduate school. Milk was nutrition. Calories, proteins, fats. A delivery system for energy. But if milk was just fuel, why would it differ based on the baby's sex? Why would mothers unconsciously adjust the formula?

The answer shifted everything: milk wasn't passive. It was a message.
Hinde had arrived at this question through an unusual path. She'd earned her bachelor's degree in anthropology from the University of Washington, then completed her PhD at UCLA in 2008. While most lactation research focused on dairy cattle or developing infant formulas, Hinde wanted to understand what milk actually did in primate mothers and babies.

At UC Davis, she had access to the largest primate research center in the United States. She could collect milk samples at different stages of lactation, track infant development, measure maternal characteristics. She could ask questions that had never been systematically studied.
Like: why do young mothers produce milk with more stress hormones?

Hinde discovered that first-time monkey mothers produced milk with fewer calories but higher concentrations of cortisol than experienced mothers. Babies who consumed this high-cortisol milk grew faster but were more nervous and less confident. The milk wasn't just feeding the baby's body—it was programming the baby's temperament.

Or: how does milk respond when babies get sick?

Working with researchers who studied infant illness, Hinde found that when babies developed infections, their mothers' milk changed within hours. The white blood cell count in the milk increased dramatically—from around 2,000 cells per milliliter to over 5,000 during acute illness. Macrophage counts quadrupled. The levels returned to normal once the baby recovered.

The mechanism was remarkable: when a baby nurses, small amounts of the baby's saliva travel back through the nipple into the mother's breast tissue. That saliva contains information about the baby's immune status. If the baby is fighting an infection, the mother's body detects the antigens and begins producing specific antibodies, which then flow back to the baby through the milk.

It was a dialogue. The baby's body communicated its needs. The mother's body responded.
Hinde started documenting everything. She collected milk from over 250 rhesus macaque mothers across more than 700 sampling events. She measured cortisol, adiponectin, epidermal growth factor, transforming growth factors. She tracked which babies gained weight faster, which were more exploratory, which were more cautious.

She realized she was mapping a language that had been invisible.
In 2011, Hinde joined Harvard as an assistant professor. She began writing about her findings, but she also noticed something troubling: almost nobody was studying human breast milk with the same rigor applied to other biological systems. When she searched publication databases, she found twice as many studies on erectile dysfunction as on breast milk composition.

The world's first food—the substance that had nourished every human who ever lived—was scientifically neglected.
She started a blog: "Mammals Suck...Milk!" The title was deliberately provocative. Within a year, it had over a million views. Parents, clinicians, researchers started asking questions. What bioactive compounds are in human milk? How does milk from mothers of premature babies differ from milk produced for full-term infants? Can we use this knowledge to improve formulas or help babies in NICUs?
Hinde's research expanded. She studied how milk changes across the day (fat concentration peaks mid-morning). She investigated how foremilk differs from hindmilk (babies with bigger appetites who nurse longer get higher-fat milk at the end of feeding). She examined how maternal characteristics—age, parity, health status, social rank—shaped milk composition.

In 2013, she created March Mammal Madness, a science outreach event that became an annual tradition in hundreds of classrooms. In 2014, she co-authored "Building Babies." In 2016, she received the Ehrlich-Koldovsky Early Career Award from the International Society for Research in Human Milk and Lactation for making outstanding contributions to the field.

By 2017, when she delivered her TED talk, she could articulate what she'd discovered across a decade of research: breast milk is food, medicine, and signal. It builds the baby's body and fuels the baby's behavior. It carries bacteria that colonize the infant gut, hormones that influence metabolism, oligosaccharides that feed beneficial microbes, immune factors that protect against pathogens.
More than 200 varieties of oligosaccharides alone. The baby can't even digest them—they exist to nourish the right community of gut bacteria, preventing harmful pathogens from establishing.
The composition is as unique as a fingerprint. No two mothers produce identical milk. No two babies receive identical nutrition.

In 2020, Hinde appeared in the Netflix docuseries "Babies," explaining her findings to a mass audience. She'd moved to Arizona State University, where she now directs the Comparative Lactation Lab. Her research continues to reveal new dimensions of how milk shapes infant outcomes from the first hours of life through childhood.

She works on precision medicine applications—using knowledge of milk bioactives to help the most fragile infants in neonatal intensive care units. She consults on formula development, helping companies create products that better replicate the functional properties of human milk for mothers who face obstacles to breastfeeding.

The implications extend beyond individual families. Understanding milk informs public health policy, workplace lactation support, clinical recommendations. It reveals how maternal characteristics,
environmental conditions, and infant needs interact in real time through a biological messaging system that's been evolving for 200 million years—longer than dinosaurs.

Katie Hinde didn't just study milk. She revealed that the most ancient form of nourishment was also the most sophisticated. What science had treated as simple nutrition was actually a dynamic, responsive communication between two bodies—a conversation that shapes human development one feeding at a time.

Here is another artlicle about her work
https://nihrecord.nih.gov/2016/04/22/breast-milk-liquid-gold-infants-hinde-says
a study
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35352583/
And where her work has led to so far
https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2024/09/11/breast-milks-benefits-are-not-limited-to-babies

This is what datun is referring to.

No male has the endocrine system in place to achieve this.

mrshoho · 10/08/2026 10:00

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 09/08/2026 23:25

Once again, the group is for LGBTQIA+ parents.

To feed their babies using their own or bought milk.

There is no evidence a chestfeeding trans woman ever atyended.

it's not misogynistic to point out thi s forum's packed with people (lots of them men) eager to be offended by trans people.

Even imaginary ones.

This is QAnon stuff. Pizzagate on hormones. My God get a better hobby than pretending you're heroes 'safeguarding' fictional kids.

Ffs do you really think we enjoy fighting and campaigning against this clap trap? Who was it that started the ridiculous notion that biological males can produce breast milk and breast feed infants? It wasn't women was it. If we don't make a noise and challenge and dispel these myths the lies continue.

Datun · 10/08/2026 11:45

It's quite reassuring that transactivists are now reduced to having to say well there aren't any transwomen doing it so ner.

When all your justifications crumble, and the only one you're left with is 'this awful thing you're talking about isn't actually happening' - you know that the corner is well and truly painted up to the wall.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 10/08/2026 11:48

Datun · 10/08/2026 11:45

It's quite reassuring that transactivists are now reduced to having to say well there aren't any transwomen doing it so ner.

When all your justifications crumble, and the only one you're left with is 'this awful thing you're talking about isn't actually happening' - you know that the corner is well and truly painted up to the wall.

indeed. Plus exchanging genuine discussion and debate for insults. As seen on numerous threads, it signifies a furious, grumbling retreat.

Helleofabore · 10/08/2026 14:31

Datun · 10/08/2026 11:45

It's quite reassuring that transactivists are now reduced to having to say well there aren't any transwomen doing it so ner.

When all your justifications crumble, and the only one you're left with is 'this awful thing you're talking about isn't actually happening' - you know that the corner is well and truly painted up to the wall.

Yep.

Same irrelevant argument being posted on this thread and one of the sports threads.

Apparently, if it is not happening right now… it is not an issue.

Also what becomes apparent, is that the person arguing this emotionally manipulative and very weak argument doesn’t care about the group they seem to be defending. Because if they cared, they would welcome absolute clarity being obtained so that not one of the group they want to protect is then publicly mentioned as using a female single sex provision that they should be excluded from.

At this stage, it comes across as someone who really has little ability to argue coherently or consistently outside of the fact they wish to censure and vilify anyone who doesn’t agree with them.

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 10/08/2026 14:48

mrshoho · 10/08/2026 10:00

Ffs do you really think we enjoy fighting and campaigning against this clap trap? Who was it that started the ridiculous notion that biological males can produce breast milk and breast feed infants? It wasn't women was it. If we don't make a noise and challenge and dispel these myths the lies continue.

Yeah, I think a lot of you do.

I think fretting, reds-under-the-bed style, about trans people is an addiction.

How many times? Queer Milk is a parent support group, with no chestfeeding trans women reported to have attended. But people on here have whipped themselves into a frenzy about it.

This isn't an isolated case. Most "look at what the trans are doing now" stories are disinformation or exaggeration.

And it is having a massive impact. Violence (most of it sexual violence) is increasing against trans people - but especially trans children in schools.

Being trans is normal. Obsessing all day, 365 days a year, about a minority is deeply abnormal.

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 10/08/2026 14:51

If and when Queer Milk is attacked, Pizzagate-style, by a terrorist convinced they're saving kids, people on this forum will bear some responsibility for that.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 10/08/2026 14:56

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 10/08/2026 14:51

If and when Queer Milk is attacked, Pizzagate-style, by a terrorist convinced they're saving kids, people on this forum will bear some responsibility for that.

That is so over the top, it deserves an Oscar.

award show film GIF by quinnie.jpg
JamesKirkupReviewWritersFund · 10/08/2026 14:57

You're a leetle bit obsessed with #pizzagate aren't you @TransParentlyAnnoyed. You don't need to shoehorn it in at every opportunity to demonstrate your finger on the pulse-ness of modern society, June George doesn't need a re-boot.

mrshoho · 10/08/2026 15:02

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 10/08/2026 14:48

Yeah, I think a lot of you do.

I think fretting, reds-under-the-bed style, about trans people is an addiction.

How many times? Queer Milk is a parent support group, with no chestfeeding trans women reported to have attended. But people on here have whipped themselves into a frenzy about it.

This isn't an isolated case. Most "look at what the trans are doing now" stories are disinformation or exaggeration.

And it is having a massive impact. Violence (most of it sexual violence) is increasing against trans people - but especially trans children in schools.

Being trans is normal. Obsessing all day, 365 days a year, about a minority is deeply abnormal.

For the record there is no such thing as 'trans kids'. Leave kids the fuck alone and let them get to adulthood.

DrBlackbird · 10/08/2026 15:20

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 10/08/2026 14:51

If and when Queer Milk is attacked, Pizzagate-style, by a terrorist convinced they're saving kids, people on this forum will bear some responsibility for that.

It seems you’re getting confused. In the UK it’s trans activists that carry out the terrorist threats and acts e.g. Bash Back, rape threats, bags of urine thrown, smashed windows, screaming to obstruct freedom of speech, vexatious use of police etc etc etc. Happy to read any evidence about FWS or SM carrying out stealth attacks missed by the press.

WrongKindOfFeminist · 10/08/2026 15:47

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 10/08/2026 14:48

Yeah, I think a lot of you do.

I think fretting, reds-under-the-bed style, about trans people is an addiction.

How many times? Queer Milk is a parent support group, with no chestfeeding trans women reported to have attended. But people on here have whipped themselves into a frenzy about it.

This isn't an isolated case. Most "look at what the trans are doing now" stories are disinformation or exaggeration.

And it is having a massive impact. Violence (most of it sexual violence) is increasing against trans people - but especially trans children in schools.

Being trans is normal. Obsessing all day, 365 days a year, about a minority is deeply abnormal.

' no chestfeeding trans women reported to have attended'

So you agree that men shouldn't be feeding babies their 'milk'?

Thank fuck.

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