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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Right-wing press perpetuating hate over Widdecombe

446 replies

YourHateIsShowing · 16/07/2026 08:41

The Daily Express and others claiming the reaction to Ann Widdecombe’s death has somehow “exposed the left” as hateful, is nonsense as usual.

There is hate on the left. Without question. There’s also hate on the right. There are totally extreme nut jobs on both sides, too. Neither side has a total monopoly on either. But I think it’s pretty lazy to not see past the noise and understand the origin of hatred on any side of conflict. Context is everything. And most can agree with that when it comes to certain situations. As a mother, I understand the hatred a mother would feel towards a drunk driver who ended their child’s life through one careless selfish decision to drive home from the pub intoxicated. Or for worse crimes we know exist. I’m using these examples simply to make the case that our value systems should be consistent. Not to imply the level of harm is the same in all cases. That would be an overreach.

Ann Widdecombe was a deeply controversial politician. She was unapologetic about her views on immigration, LGBTQ+ rights, welfare and poverty. I remember her response when challenged about people who couldn’t afford a cheese sandwich: her answer amounted to, “Don’t have a cheese sandwich then.” I’ve watched her for years as a speaker on right wing conservative talking points; she dedicated her life to politics, but very often in ways that supported the structural degradation of groups of already marginalised people in society. So I loathed what she stood for and I make no secret of that.
And why should others who were actually targeted or harmed by the spread of her views suddenly be expected to pretend she was a saint because of what happened to her? Or be quiet? Widdecombe was anything a saint and anything but quiet throughout her political career. Death doesn’t erase public record.

What I will say though, is this: what happened to her was awful. Abhorrent. What happened was utterly disgusting, AND so were her views on a lot of things. Views that had influence. That doesn’t mean she deserved what happened to her. I feel for her, and her family. She would have been scared. She has my empathy for that. In spades. But I certainly don’t think others who were the focus of her intolerance should be expected to rewrite history or suppress honest criticism of the suffering she supported within society, out of respect for some weird convention that says we should only speak well of the dead. I don’t buy into that.

I’m sure Ann loved her family, had close friends, and watered all her house plants. I don’t see the world in terms of heroes and villains. We can be either at any time under different circumstances. But for those who’ve maybe read 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, you may also find truth in the words of Covey who said “we are what we repeatedly do”. If you repeatedly lie, guess what? You’re a liar.

There’s truth in that, even though I mostly see people on a spectrum and not in the binary. I still see the small compounding decisions they repeatedly make, and more importantly how those decisions impact others. We can also accept conflicting ideas, where good people commit a bad act, for good reason. It’s complicated.
But overall, some people leave the world a tiny bit kinder, fairer and more compassionate as a result of those compounding decisions met with their sphere of influence. Others leave it more divided, more fearful or less equal. Most of us fall somewhere in between. And most have little influence outside our immediate circle.
Ann had more than the average bod, so I hold her and other public figures to a higher standard. She didn’t stack up, for me.

Ann Widdecombe accepted and even defended policy that saw totally unnecessary poverty and hunger (children included), in the 6th richest country in the world. She stood against abortion in cases of rape. And she consistently fought against gay rights. She repeatedly contributed to this. This is who she was. What she stood for. And what those who support her stand for.

So what the right read as hatred among the left today, in the wake of this awful event that brought her world views into sharp focus, I read as an intolerance not of her skin colour, or her sexual orientation, or her nationality, but of all she stood for and against; all she was intolerant of in people without choices.

Karl Popper’s paradox of tolerance explains this best, I think. If you’ve not come across it, it’s essentially characterised by an intolerance of intolerance itself. The difference is this: to be intolerant of someone’s skin colour, ethnicity, or other things they cannot change, such as their sexual orientation, or even level of poverty, certainly if you’re still a child born into it, is not the same as having an intolerance of those who punch down at them from a place of privilege.

Ann Widdecombe was openly homophobic and believed science should one day cure it, as if being gay were a disease to be eradicated. That’s a profound intolerance of something people cannot change. The same cannot be said of a worldview built on prejudice, bigotry or theocratic ideology. Those are beliefs. They’re decisions. They can be questioned, challenged and changed. Even after death. And if she and others like her directed more of their intolerance towards harmful ideas, rather than towards people for who they are, and for that which they cannot change, we’d have less hatred on both sides. But the root of that hatred, is glaringly obvious when you actually take the time to analyse it. Spoiler alert: it’s not coming from the left.

So this headline can get in the bin.
Where it belongs.

Right-wing press perpetuating hate over Widdecombe
OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
TheKeatingFive · Yesterday 06:16

Whisperingwaters · Yesterday 06:08

No one has the right to any healthcare they demand. That is mitigated by what HCPs believe to be safe and appropriate and (if on the NHS) also cost/benefit

Oh please. Everyone knows the Cass report was politically motivated medical interference whose recommendations are now being blocked because the inexpert political ideologues who demanded it don't like the outcome. You people don't give a flying F of what experts believe is safe & appropriate if it doesn't align with your dogmas.

Trans people have exactly the same rights to privacy as anyone else.

Being forcibly 'outed' & 'othered' is anti privacy as per human rights.

They also have the same rights not to be abused as anyone else.

The point you are missing is the unnecessary increase of risk they now face which effectively constrains their freedom of movement.

This is all nonsense though.

No one has the right to demand what Doctors prescribe for them. Doctors must work within the parameters of what they know to be safe and cost effective. In the absence of a strong evidence base it is right that they would be cautious.

No one has the right to conceal their sex to access facilities designated for the opposite sex. That has no impact on someone's freedom of movement. They can use the facilities provided for their sex or unisex facilities.

Seethlaw · Yesterday 06:25

Whisperingwaters · Yesterday 06:08

No one has the right to any healthcare they demand. That is mitigated by what HCPs believe to be safe and appropriate and (if on the NHS) also cost/benefit

Oh please. Everyone knows the Cass report was politically motivated medical interference whose recommendations are now being blocked because the inexpert political ideologues who demanded it don't like the outcome. You people don't give a flying F of what experts believe is safe & appropriate if it doesn't align with your dogmas.

Trans people have exactly the same rights to privacy as anyone else.

Being forcibly 'outed' & 'othered' is anti privacy as per human rights.

They also have the same rights not to be abused as anyone else.

The point you are missing is the unnecessary increase of risk they now face which effectively constrains their freedom of movement.

This is hilarious.

Though I'm sorry you're in such a state of mind as to apparently actually believe all this nonsense.

Whisperingwaters · Yesterday 06:31

TheKeatingFive · Yesterday 06:16

This is all nonsense though.

No one has the right to demand what Doctors prescribe for them. Doctors must work within the parameters of what they know to be safe and cost effective. In the absence of a strong evidence base it is right that they would be cautious.

No one has the right to conceal their sex to access facilities designated for the opposite sex. That has no impact on someone's freedom of movement. They can use the facilities provided for their sex or unisex facilities.

Strawman. No one is suggesting the right to demand what doctors prescribe for them. What they are demanding is doctors be allowed to administer treatment that's medically approved without political interference. You might not care about this because it's a win for your ideology but violating this principle puts all medical treatment at risk the prevailing government deems 'inappropriate'. See reproductive health care in the US.

No one has the right to conceal their sex to access facilities designated for the opposite sex. That has no impact on someone's freedom of movement. They can use the facilities provided for their sex or unisex facilities.

Everyone has the right to privacy under human rights law as they do the right not to be 'othered' into a third space.

In any case, it's not illegal yet for trans people to use their preferred toilet. Its only possibly illegal for service providers to allow them which we won't even know for sure until case law clarifies this. If you have a single-sex space a trans person can still go into that single-sex space, but if someone complains, they can bring out a sex discrimination claim or the organisation can exclude that person, but that doesn’t happen automatically. Even if you do have a single-sex space, the exclusion must be proportionate, which means that the rights of whoever wants to be in a single-sex space, if they’re complaining, have to be counterbalanced against the rights of a trans person. Those rights still exist. The law hasn’t changed on that.

MintBird · Yesterday 07:24

Have you seen the state of Facebook these days? Literally every single time there's a news article about a brown or LGBT person being attacked there is a long list of laughing emojis and comments celebrating it.

It's all "free speech" of course and "no one should be arrested for a tweet" according to the far right. Unless they are trans of course.

EasternStandard · Yesterday 07:30

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 23:23

The 'conflict' has become more about the consequences of free speech absolutism. The chickens having come home to roost because the right laid the groundwork for anything goes under the guise of its not hate to speak the truth can't have it both ways when one of their own is at the mercy of it.

I'm not justifying this ugly debasement of public discourse, I'm just explaining how we got here that seems inconsistent with now punishing those for 'wrong speech' whose culture enabled it.

You reap what you sow.

This line of attack is pretty warped wrt a murder of a female ex MP.

Ik you’re angry but getting to this place where you type you reap what you sow over a murder isn’t a good place to be.

Roxela · Yesterday 07:45

Whisperingwaters · Yesterday 02:02

Oh stop white washing her obvious belief that homosexuality is 'learned' & can be 'cured'. This nutter like many conservatives had a 'groomer' mentality that she attempted to obscure by framing her homophobia as a desire for self determination.

"In her column in the Daily Express, she questions the lack of availability of therapy for “gays who do not want to be gay”.

Widdecombe wrote about the case of Lesley Pilkington, who was found guilty of malpractice by the British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy last year.
She argues that if a gay person wants to change their sexuality, professional help should be available to them, despite a lack of scientific evidence for it working.

She wrote: “When I was training as a Samaritan in the Eighties the first principle was never to dismiss another’s priorities.

“If a man rang in and said he was gay we should never say, “Oh, that doesn’t matter, it’s OK to be gay,” if he took the opposite view.”

https://www.thepinknews.com/2012/02/02/ann-widdecombe-let-unhappy-gays-try-to-turn-straight/

I am not defending her views or arguing in favour of them. Reading the Express article you linked, she appears to have been making the same point that I said she was making, together with advocating for people being people able to choose to have therapy if they are unhappy with being gay and want to try not to be.

She absolutely did have views about homosexuality, but a personal desire actively to cure homosexuality or believing that it is learned, is not what she is saying here.

AccordingToWhom · Yesterday 07:54

smearing them as a danger to society

Probably not a great move for them to spout such violent rhetoric, then.

Whisperingwaters · Yesterday 08:00

EasternStandard · Yesterday 07:30

This line of attack is pretty warped wrt a murder of a female ex MP.

Ik you’re angry but getting to this place where you type you reap what you sow over a murder isn’t a good place to be.

Um, the context is the reaction to the murder. Not the murder itself.

You don't appear to understand that "you reap what you sow" simply means that future consequences, whether good or bad, are the direct result of past actions & in this case free speech absolutism has led us to the point of nasty indifference to a tragedy.

Seethlaw · Yesterday 08:02

MintBird · Yesterday 07:24

Have you seen the state of Facebook these days? Literally every single time there's a news article about a brown or LGBT person being attacked there is a long list of laughing emojis and comments celebrating it.

It's all "free speech" of course and "no one should be arrested for a tweet" according to the far right. Unless they are trans of course.

You do know that Facebook shows you what you tell it you want to see, right? I don't get any of those reactions you mention, quite the opposite, because I ruthlessly curate my feed.

Whisperingwaters · Yesterday 08:04

Roxela · Yesterday 07:45

I am not defending her views or arguing in favour of them. Reading the Express article you linked, she appears to have been making the same point that I said she was making, together with advocating for people being people able to choose to have therapy if they are unhappy with being gay and want to try not to be.

She absolutely did have views about homosexuality, but a personal desire actively to cure homosexuality or believing that it is learned, is not what she is saying here.

Edited

She absolutely did have views about homosexuality, but a personal desire actively to cure homosexuality or believing that it is learned, is not what she is saying here.

It's exactly what she's saying because by virtue of saying people are entitled to access to conversion therapy in the context of it being prevented (see article) means she thinks it can be 'cured'.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · Yesterday 08:12

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 23:23

The 'conflict' has become more about the consequences of free speech absolutism. The chickens having come home to roost because the right laid the groundwork for anything goes under the guise of its not hate to speak the truth can't have it both ways when one of their own is at the mercy of it.

I'm not justifying this ugly debasement of public discourse, I'm just explaining how we got here that seems inconsistent with now punishing those for 'wrong speech' whose culture enabled it.

You reap what you sow.

So if I understand your point correctly.

You are attacking ‘the right’ for protecting free speech from the authoritarian left and the left are now busily lying and making stuff up about Ann’s views and words and that’s ok
cos ‘free speech’?

You reap what you sow.

Your repetition of this on a thread where the ‘progressive’ or authoritarian left are minimising the brutal murder of a woman, preferring to focus on her views that they dislike is deeply sinister.

Thank you for giving such a clear representation of the moral values of the so called ‘progressive left’.

EasternStandard · Yesterday 08:17

Whisperingwaters · Yesterday 08:00

Um, the context is the reaction to the murder. Not the murder itself.

You don't appear to understand that "you reap what you sow" simply means that future consequences, whether good or bad, are the direct result of past actions & in this case free speech absolutism has led us to the point of nasty indifference to a tragedy.

It’s not right, it’s not a good thing to put on a thread about Ann Widdecombe’s brutal murder.

TheKeatingFive · Yesterday 08:17

Whisperingwaters · Yesterday 06:31

Strawman. No one is suggesting the right to demand what doctors prescribe for them. What they are demanding is doctors be allowed to administer treatment that's medically approved without political interference. You might not care about this because it's a win for your ideology but violating this principle puts all medical treatment at risk the prevailing government deems 'inappropriate'. See reproductive health care in the US.

No one has the right to conceal their sex to access facilities designated for the opposite sex. That has no impact on someone's freedom of movement. They can use the facilities provided for their sex or unisex facilities.

Everyone has the right to privacy under human rights law as they do the right not to be 'othered' into a third space.

In any case, it's not illegal yet for trans people to use their preferred toilet. Its only possibly illegal for service providers to allow them which we won't even know for sure until case law clarifies this. If you have a single-sex space a trans person can still go into that single-sex space, but if someone complains, they can bring out a sex discrimination claim or the organisation can exclude that person, but that doesn’t happen automatically. Even if you do have a single-sex space, the exclusion must be proportionate, which means that the rights of whoever wants to be in a single-sex space, if they’re complaining, have to be counterbalanced against the rights of a trans person. Those rights still exist. The law hasn’t changed on that.

Once again, no.

There are significant gaps in the evidence base when it comes to hormones and surgery for trans identifying people. Being cautious in the face of that is good medical practice.

The SC ruling has clarified that access to single sex facilities is determined by biological sex. No one has any 'right' to access spaces for the opposite sex on any grounds. There is no absolute right to privacy for anyone.

TheKeatingFive · Yesterday 08:17

Whisperingwaters · Yesterday 06:31

Strawman. No one is suggesting the right to demand what doctors prescribe for them. What they are demanding is doctors be allowed to administer treatment that's medically approved without political interference. You might not care about this because it's a win for your ideology but violating this principle puts all medical treatment at risk the prevailing government deems 'inappropriate'. See reproductive health care in the US.

No one has the right to conceal their sex to access facilities designated for the opposite sex. That has no impact on someone's freedom of movement. They can use the facilities provided for their sex or unisex facilities.

Everyone has the right to privacy under human rights law as they do the right not to be 'othered' into a third space.

In any case, it's not illegal yet for trans people to use their preferred toilet. Its only possibly illegal for service providers to allow them which we won't even know for sure until case law clarifies this. If you have a single-sex space a trans person can still go into that single-sex space, but if someone complains, they can bring out a sex discrimination claim or the organisation can exclude that person, but that doesn’t happen automatically. Even if you do have a single-sex space, the exclusion must be proportionate, which means that the rights of whoever wants to be in a single-sex space, if they’re complaining, have to be counterbalanced against the rights of a trans person. Those rights still exist. The law hasn’t changed on that.

Once again, no.

There are significant gaps in the evidence base when it comes to hormones and surgery for trans identifying people. Being cautious in the face of that is good medical practice.

The SC ruling has clarified that access to single sex facilities is determined by biological sex. No one has any 'right' to access spaces for the opposite sex on any grounds. There is no absolute right to privacy for anyone.

TheKeatingFive · Yesterday 08:17

Sorry don't know why that posted twice

TheKeatingFive · Yesterday 08:19

Also dismissing this

https://terfisaslur.com/

As 'social media blustering' is an absolutely despicable position

TERF is a slur

Documenting the abuse, harassment and misogyny of transgender identity politics

https://terfisaslur.com/

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · Yesterday 08:24

MintBird · Yesterday 07:24

Have you seen the state of Facebook these days? Literally every single time there's a news article about a brown or LGBT person being attacked there is a long list of laughing emojis and comments celebrating it.

It's all "free speech" of course and "no one should be arrested for a tweet" according to the far right. Unless they are trans of course.

My Facebook shows nothing of the sort. You must be on some very weird pages.

If you think that’s bad though you should see how women standing up for our rights are treated, it’ll blow your mind. There are some very weird and unpleasant people out there.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · Yesterday 08:30

Whisperingwaters · Yesterday 08:00

Um, the context is the reaction to the murder. Not the murder itself.

You don't appear to understand that "you reap what you sow" simply means that future consequences, whether good or bad, are the direct result of past actions & in this case free speech absolutism has led us to the point of nasty indifference to a tragedy.

It is also weird that you are blaming ‘the right’ for this so called free speech absolutism (I’m not aware if that specifically being the aim of the right, just free speech would be adequate) that is being abused by the authoritarian left when it’s the authoritarian left who seek to forcibly impose their views on society and would not listen to ‘the right’ in a million years.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · Yesterday 08:42

Whisperingwaters · Yesterday 08:04

She absolutely did have views about homosexuality, but a personal desire actively to cure homosexuality or believing that it is learned, is not what she is saying here.

It's exactly what she's saying because by virtue of saying people are entitled to access to conversion therapy in the context of it being prevented (see article) means she thinks it can be 'cured'.

It's exactly what she's saying because by virtue of saying people are entitled to access to conversion therapy in the context of it being prevented (see article) means she thinks it can be 'cured'.

No it isn’t and none of even the worst activist articles you have shared say that. Saying that people unhappy with their sexuality should have access to psychological support is not saying that she believes they can or should be ‘cured’.

You appear to be failing to understand or acknowledge that the only ‘cure’ being promoted by homophobic people is ‘transgenderism’ which seeks to convert a homosexual relationship into a ‘heterosexual’ relationship by declaration that one party is ‘trans’.

Pretending that Ann argued that homosexuality should be cured when you support transgenderism is the biggest DARVO going.

Seeing as you like a proverb - I think “physician heal thyself” is relevant here.

It means a person should correct their own faults or address their own problems before attempting to criticize or advise others. It serves as a caution against hypocrisy.

Genericfestiveusername · Yesterday 08:57

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 16/07/2026 17:26

She was born in a different era so what?

That is very relevant to her views. She was 20 when homosexuality was decriminalised in the UK.

I don't have to agree with her views.

No you don’t but you could do get the common courtesy of not lying and misrepresenting her views.

I may not want to personally, that doesn't mean it's acceptable for someone else to say I'm not entitled to, given there are lesbians who are very religious and do want a religious wedding.

But that’s also the general view of the Church of England. I suggest you take it up with them rather than attacking an individual as if it’s all her fault. As a woman she actually had little to no say as to the rules of the church. Do you criticise Muslims as harshly for the anti homosexual elements in their faith?

You are so quick to dismiss things out of hand - it’s like you want her to be the bad guy without actually examining her views.

Or perhaps I hold an opinion you disagree with, just as she held opinions I disagree with. You seem very set on not accepting diversity of thought.

Genericfestiveusername · Yesterday 08:58

FlirtsWithRhinos · 16/07/2026 17:29

You can use the language you want.

I'm saying constantly eliding "homophobic" - which I woudl agree with - and "hateful" is not an effective strategy. It might mke you feel better but it's not going to help tackle the problems you complain about.

It's up to you whether you care about that. It's information not prescription.

Edited

Who said it makes me feel better? Maybe it's just my assessment of her beliefs. I note you are quite keen to change my mind, is there a reason why you feel so upset by my opinion?

Whisperingwaters · Yesterday 09:03

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · Yesterday 08:42

It's exactly what she's saying because by virtue of saying people are entitled to access to conversion therapy in the context of it being prevented (see article) means she thinks it can be 'cured'.

No it isn’t and none of even the worst activist articles you have shared say that. Saying that people unhappy with their sexuality should have access to psychological support is not saying that she believes they can or should be ‘cured’.

You appear to be failing to understand or acknowledge that the only ‘cure’ being promoted by homophobic people is ‘transgenderism’ which seeks to convert a homosexual relationship into a ‘heterosexual’ relationship by declaration that one party is ‘trans’.

Pretending that Ann argued that homosexuality should be cured when you support transgenderism is the biggest DARVO going.

Seeing as you like a proverb - I think “physician heal thyself” is relevant here.

It means a person should correct their own faults or address their own problems before attempting to criticize or advise others. It serves as a caution against hypocrisy.

psychological support

Did you even read the piece? Her remarks where she is quoted are specifically about conversion therapy. You know, the antithesis of psychological support.

And if you think you can exploit trans hate to distract from her homophobia you be very mistaken as well as deeply ignorant.

Genericfestiveusername · Yesterday 09:04

TempestTost · 16/07/2026 18:35

Catholics believe that sexual activity is intended to happen when it could, at least theoretically, produce children, and within a marriage. That's for everyone. It's very strict. It means many people would be celibate much of the time, even married people.

They also believe everyone suffers from all kinds of personal things they need to overcome, be it over-eating, being a jerk, violent tendencies, whatever. This is just what it is to be human, but the goal of much of Catholic practice is to help people cope with these things practically and psychologically.

Sex isn't really seen as a unique compared to other human activities.

I don't give any weight to catholic opinions on sex, I was raised catholic so I understand the teachings inside out. I think especially after the swathes of sexual abuse and abuse of women the Catholic church allowed they and their followers who still support the church should keep their opinions on everyone else's activities to themselves.

SionnachRuadh · Yesterday 09:04

Interesting to note that "Hope Not Hate" have quietly deleted their page on Ann Widdecombe.

Genericfestiveusername · Yesterday 09:05

TempestTost · Yesterday 03:10

Societies always have to discuss what rights people have, under what circumstances.what social institutions like marriage are actually for.

These are not self evident issues.

And yet those who are so very set on not allowing their fellow Christians who happen to be gay to marry in church have decided these things are a set issue. I think they're hypocritical given not many actually hold the courage of their convictions when it applies to their own religious leaders or institutions.

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